Mark Kilens 60 min

How Customer Marketing is the Secret to New Customer Acquisition


Unlock the secret to new customer acquisition with effective customer marketing strategies. Discover how leveraging existing customers can drive growth.



0:00

Hey, how you folks doing today?

0:05

Thanks so much for coming to another club, PF event.

0:08

My name is Mark Hillens, co-founder of the club.

0:11

Today we're talking about customer marketing

0:13

and how it's the secret to new customer acquisition.

0:16

I mean, I did not even realize it's a Rayleigh,

0:18

but I matched my polo to the branding of Kumbia.

0:21

Kumbia.

0:22

(laughing)

0:24

- Good, spot on, it's a day.

0:26

- That is some style right there.

0:27

So yeah, a Rayleigh as a special guest,

0:30

she and I worked at Drift for many years together.

0:34

We both love oysters.

0:35

(laughing)

0:37

And she's now the head of product and customer marketing

0:40

and brand at DataGrail.

0:42

So Rayleigh, I wanna first ask you a question

0:46

right out of the gate.

0:46

We're gonna get right into it really fast, everyone.

0:48

And folks who joined in live,

0:50

we wanna make this super engaging and interactive.

0:52

So ask us questions, come off mute.

0:54

If you're listening to the recording,

0:55

hope you find this valuable, leave questions inside the club

0:59

and Rayleigh and I will do our best to respond to them.

1:02

But I wanna ask you a question out of the gate,

1:05

what is the intersection between product marketing

1:09

and customer marketing to your mind?

1:10

Like why are those two things together?

1:12

They've been together at a few of your jobs.

1:14

Tell us more.

1:15

- Yep.

1:16

Well, first off, thank you for having me.

1:18

Super excited to be here today with everyone.

1:20

And the intersection, I mean, this is gonna sound silly,

1:24

but is customers.

1:26

So product marketing, if you're really doing it well,

1:29

is you're the voice of your customer, right?

1:31

You are understanding their needs, their challenges.

1:34

You are understanding how they use your product

1:38

or would like to use your product

1:40

and you can bring that to inform your roadmap,

1:43

your understanding, obviously how using their challenges

1:47

to tell stories, right?

1:50

That resonate with them and other future customers, ideally.

1:54

So I think the core intersection really is customers.

1:58

Now there's different ways that,

2:00

and so I think you'll see it.

2:02

Some companies customer marketing, product marketing,

2:04

being together, like I have it at Datagrill,

2:07

I think as a company scales and gets really big,

2:09

you probably are gonna have separate functions

2:11

just given how much there is to do there.

2:14

But there's so much overlap,

2:15

which we're gonna get into today

2:17

in terms of how you're educating your customers,

2:21

which is really what you're doing

2:23

in product marketing and customer marketing, right?

2:26

Is you're educating them and you're making them,

2:29

essentially the voice in the face of your brand

2:33

to help you retain them, to help you get new customers

2:37

and ideally expand your existing customers as well.

2:44

I love that and to hone in on what we're gonna talk about today,

2:48

it's really these two channels.

2:50

It's of course customer led already,

2:52

but it's really community led.

2:53

It's like what you just said,

2:54

it's how do you partner with your customers?

2:59

Like a lot of people say,

3:00

"Yeah, I'm part of it with my customers."

3:02

There's different levels of partnership, right?

3:06

In fact, that's something I'm creating for the club now,

3:09

which is gonna be this maturity model

3:10

when it comes to partner led growth.

3:13

How do you actually partner

3:14

from a community member customer standpoint?

3:17

When we talk about today's event and context,

3:20

it's like how do you deeply partner with your customers?

3:22

We have 11 different plays you could run

3:25

and we have some stuff to tee up those plays

3:28

and that translates into what we believe,

3:31

Aurelion and I believe are these five pillars

3:33

that make up a good customer marketing strategy,

3:38

but it's more than just customer marketing

3:40

'cause the thing I hate about the term Aurelion,

3:42

it's like marketing is in this term.

3:44

- Yeah.

3:45

- It's not just marketing, right?

3:48

- Right.

3:49

- Right.

3:50

- So yeah, I mean, let's maybe unpack each five

3:53

of these things and as you listen to today's conversation,

3:55

as you ask questions,

3:57

like these are gonna be the underpinnings

3:59

of how we think about,

4:01

you know, using this is a tough word too,

4:03

but like, partner with your customers

4:06

to help you generate more revenue at the end of the day.

4:09

- Yep.

4:11

- Yep.

4:12

- Yeah, and I think the partnership is a great word

4:16

and it takes a form for different types of customers

4:18

that you have, right?

4:19

So we talk about you're gonna have your users, right?

4:23

Who are in the product on a daily basis

4:26

and then you're gonna have your champions

4:28

or executive buyers, right?

4:30

The folks that are not gonna be in your product

4:33

are probably if you have a community, right?

4:35

Like a Slack channel or however different forum

4:38

that you're hosting it,

4:39

you're not gonna have those executive buyers in there

4:41

for the most part, right?

4:43

That's just not where they hang out.

4:45

And so we think about our user groups,

4:48

I know we're gonna get into a little bit,

4:49

but thinking about the different,

4:52

think about your customer base

4:54

and thinking about how do you partner

4:56

in a effective way with each of them?

4:58

So in terms of how do they engage

5:00

with your product and with your brand

5:03

and how do you ideally want them to, right?

5:05

So an executive, I don't want an executive

5:08

really giving me feedback on the product

5:10

'cause they're not gonna be, that can be detailed enough.

5:13

But I do want them out engaging with other executives

5:16

at some of our target accounts

5:18

because they can speak the business value

5:22

of the problems we're solving,

5:24

how we're helping them generate more revenue

5:25

or lower costs or whatever,

5:27

reduce risk, whatever you're doing as a business.

5:30

And then those users are so important

5:33

to really making your product sticky and valuable

5:36

and driving that adoption.

5:38

And I know we'll get into this a little bit later too, Mark,

5:40

but those users are critical to thinking about,

5:42

actually creating educational content

5:45

about how you can better use your,

5:48

different customers can better use your product

5:50

'cause you're learning from your customers

5:51

about how are they using it?

5:53

And often I found,

5:55

we obviously have a perspective of any company

5:57

where you have a product,

5:58

if you know your product well, hopefully,

6:00

you know how you ideally built the product

6:02

for your customers to use it.

6:03

But you always are surprised to learn

6:05

different ways customers are using it

6:08

that is incredibly valuable to them

6:10

and that can be shared with other customers.

6:12

And so I think that's where understanding

6:14

how you want to partner and then leveraging that

6:17

in the way through different communities,

6:19

I've seen it be incredibly valuable.

6:22

- Yeah, and number two value,

6:24

it's related to product marketing.

6:25

A great product marketing strategy,

6:28

the foundation is value.

6:30

Like what is the quantifiable value

6:32

that you're delivering to the users and customers?

6:36

And how do you do that differently?

6:39

How do you do that from like a feature standpoint?

6:42

And then like what are the ways

6:44

in which you can deliver that value?

6:45

Which goes in number three, customization.

6:47

It's not personalization,

6:48

that term is way overused.

6:50

This is about how do you create customized solutions,

6:53

both like for your customers and with your customers,

6:55

but also how do you customize the relationship,

6:58

the partnership with each customer

7:00

to actually help them bring what they're doing

7:03

to other customers and to the community,

7:05

to your point of failure, right?

7:06

And then the two at the bottom,

7:07

I put them deliberately at the bottom

7:09

'cause that's the foundation of how you actually do one,

7:12

two and three.

7:14

Like if you're not providing the right level of support

7:17

in either a one to many model,

7:18

a one to few model or a one to one model,

7:21

and you could have all three of those,

7:22

or just one of those.

7:24

And if you're not providing the right education

7:25

to your point of failure,

7:26

then being able to actually retain the customer,

7:31

which is ultimately like the key goal

7:33

if you wanna create a longer-term partnership,

7:36

is gonna be much, much harder.

7:37

So education support,

7:39

we'll talk about some plays

7:40

that you can deliver for those two things,

7:43

are really how you customize,

7:45

how you create the value that they expect

7:48

during that sales process, you know, upfront,

7:50

and how you actually deepen the partnership.

7:53

There's a lot of ways to unpack this,

7:54

but oh, is this not being,

7:57

oh, sorry, is this not being shown?

7:58

I'm sorry, yeah, I wanted to make sure.

8:01

- I can see it.

8:02

- I wanna make sure,

8:03

can you even see the, okay, good, we got, okay, sorry.

8:07

Just wanna make sure we get, sorry, sorry folks,

8:10

if you were able to see that,

8:11

but I was just walking through that with the Rayleigh,

8:13

like these kind of five pillars

8:16

to how to think about customer-led growth,

8:18

how to think about customer marketing.

8:19

What we wanna do now is actually unpack customer-led growth

8:23

first from a crawl walk run standpoint.

8:27

So really, do you wanna go through this first?

8:28

'Cause like, if you're just starting out

8:30

with like customer-led growth, customer marketing,

8:32

we're trying to set the foundation

8:33

before we get into the tactical place.

8:35

- Yep, yep.

8:36

Yeah, so I think, saved one, right?

8:38

If you don't have a customer marketing program

8:41

or it's new to the company or there's a little bit there,

8:44

I think, start small, right?

8:46

As we said, crawl walk one, run.

8:48

So the easiest way to get started here

8:51

is finding your most engaged customers right away.

8:55

So every, that might be some of your oldest customers, right?

8:58

That might have been your first five customers

9:00

that have been along with your brand

9:01

throughout the whole ride.

9:03

It might be some new customers that you've signed recently

9:06

that are super happy.

9:07

I mean, whoever it is,

9:08

and I think the way that you can identify this is

9:11

one through usage data.

9:14

So like, how are they, who's using the data?

9:16

You can, if you use NPS scores at all

9:18

from your, if you send out NPS surveys,

9:22

who has high NPS surveys, your CS team is a great channel

9:26

to understand how happy are right there

9:29

with their customers day in and day out.

9:31

Who are those that are most happy,

9:32

that are giving feedback, that are asking questions?

9:35

If you have a community, again, like a SOC channel

9:37

or a community hosted place, who's engaging there,

9:41

that's where I would start.

9:42

And these probably are not gonna be

9:44

executive level customers or personas to start.

9:49

That's okay, that's okay.

9:52

And I think there could be based on whoever,

9:55

running the company and your executive team,

9:57

if there are a few friendlies at the executive level,

10:00

that's where I would start to see, okay,

10:02

can I get a couple customers from that level?

10:07

But those are some examples of how I would like

10:09

start to find who are those most engaged customers.

10:12

And then start to understand how are they using your product?

10:16

Like get on the phone with them,

10:17

talk to them, meet in person if you can, right?

10:20

And you can obviously get the feedback from CS,

10:23

but it's so much more impactful

10:24

to talk to the customers directly

10:25

and understand how they're using it,

10:28

what roadblocks are running into,

10:29

how else they would like to use it.

10:32

And we're gonna talk about a maturity model later,

10:34

but this is, if you think about building a maturity model,

10:38

you wanna understand the stages that your customers go through

10:41

in terms of growth of your product.

10:43

And so you might be delighted to learn

10:45

that some of these customers are further along

10:48

in the journey than others.

10:49

And then as we were talking about Mark,

10:53

like can use that to share with other customers.

10:56

So you can turn some of these originally

10:59

into some content about whether in some educational content,

11:03

like the best practices, or if it is an educational case study,

11:07

for example, that could be created out of this,

11:09

that's really great.

11:11

But it also could just be a way to facilitate conversations

11:15

amongst customers, or in the sales process,

11:19

if a rep has a customer with a similar type of challenge,

11:24

a good opportunity perhaps for a reference

11:27

to use this person to speak to that prospect,

11:29

to drive some new acquisition.

11:32

- Yeah, this is the great example of customer growth

11:35

and the intersection of content-led and event-led, right?

11:37

Like those examples that are really just gave

11:39

that we'll go through in more details

11:40

to begin to the 11 plays.

11:41

Also product-led, right, with the usage data

11:43

cannot under emphasize, or emphasize enough, I should say,

11:47

the idea of using usage data from a product-led standpoint,

11:51

both for free customers and paying customers, of course,

11:53

to actually get this thing spinning.

11:55

And then, of course, like you just said,

11:56

the community piece as well.

11:58

So stage two is where you have that foundation in place,

12:01

you've started to form partnerships with your customers

12:06

in a way that's more than just from a monetary standpoint

12:08

and a value standpoint.

12:09

It's like, no, let's actually work together on different things

12:13

and make you more of the star

12:15

and actually help you not just as a business

12:19

buying our product, but as an individual.

12:21

'Cause as you think about your customer partnerships,

12:23

you're trying to partner with the person.

12:25

Yeah, sure, the logo and the business is important,

12:27

but the more you can create that relationship

12:29

at the one-to-one level and maybe help them get a promotion,

12:32

help them look amazing to the board

12:34

or to their executive team.

12:35

Like that is where real magic starts to happen.

12:38

And one way to do that is in the second stage,

12:41

when it comes to things that you've done

12:42

are really with customer advisory boards,

12:43

voice of customer, et cetera.

12:45

Yeah, and I think I totally agree with everything you just said.

12:49

And I think the one thing I would add is,

12:52

that one-to-one is so powerful and seeing like,

12:55

can you multi-thread a little bit too,

12:57

like depending who you sell to?

12:58

Like if your product is being used by, let's say,

13:03

sales and marketing or CS and product,

13:06

whatever the departments are,

13:08

can you build a champion in a relationship,

13:10

a close one with a couple folks?

13:13

And I say that because I think what's key is that,

13:17

people leave bit companies all the time

13:19

and you wanna make sure too that you maintain

13:22

that really strong relationship

13:24

beyond with the company as well.

13:27

But it's strongest of you,

13:28

you can do it at the one-to-one level.

13:29

So finding that one person, maybe it's two, ideally.

13:32

But yeah, a cab, customer advisory board.

13:36

I love cabs.

13:38

We're doing one in a couple weeks at Datagrail,

13:41

which will be the first ever,

13:42

we did our first ever one at Drift a couple years ago.

13:45

And this is so valuable to engage your executive audience.

13:50

You're top 10 to 15 VIP customers

13:55

that can really inform your go-to-market strategy

13:58

that can give you feedback on your roadmap.

14:01

They're thinking high level, right?

14:02

They're thinking business.

14:03

So you can share your business plan for the next year.

14:06

You can share the 12-month roadmap.

14:08

You can share some messaging that you're thinking about,

14:10

going to market,

14:11

and they're gonna have really great feedback

14:14

and be really engaged.

14:15

And this is critical to,

14:17

as we talk about retention and expansion,

14:19

having the buy-in from these executives

14:21

is foundational, I think,

14:25

to growing those customers and expanding to new customers.

14:30

And then I think a voice of customer,

14:32

I actually love this as well,

14:34

because this is probably where you can scale.

14:38

So there's many ways to do voice of customer.

14:40

So you can try to do it at scale with surveys.

14:45

If you aren't at that level,

14:46

you can just do interviews,

14:47

but this is really very data-driven, right?

14:50

And you can understand what are your customers saying,

14:54

what do they care about?

14:55

There are external, like, win-loss programs you can use,

14:59

but there's also just your internal data

15:01

from literally the voices of your customers,

15:03

from feature requests they're giving,

15:06

whether you use Pendo or something else,

15:08

how they're using the product,

15:09

other feedback they're providing.

15:11

And that has a ton of value for not just your team

15:17

of growing out customer marketing,

15:19

but the product team, the CS team, right?

15:22

Your executive team, everybody is gonna wanna understand

15:25

customers, because the most successful businesses

15:28

are those that are truly putting the customer first

15:30

and thinking and building that way.

15:32

And I think voice of customers,

15:33

such a foundational piece to that.

15:36

And the third thing I'd add is,

15:38

as we talk about here, the marketing campaigns.

15:40

I think in stage two,

15:41

this is where you start to think about,

15:42

okay, how can I, again,

15:45

start to scale a little bit more at stage two

15:47

and generate some campaigns targeted at our customers,

15:50

not just at new business?

15:52

And I would say because this is still stage two,

15:54

this is probably not gonna be tailored

15:56

to each stage of the customer journey,

15:58

but maybe you start out with,

16:00

okay, we have different cohorts of customers.

16:02

I've customers using, you know, in a certain vertical,

16:04

or there are certain segment,

16:06

like an enterprise or mid-market,

16:07

or they are a certain buyer persona, right,

16:10

a certain role, or they use a certain product

16:13

if you're a multi-product company.

16:15

And that's how you can start to segment.

16:19

And then as you get more sophisticated,

16:21

I was talking about it later,

16:22

starting to think about, okay, you have those segments,

16:24

but then within that,

16:25

you're starting to segment based on where they are

16:27

in their journey with your brand,

16:29

in their customer journey,

16:31

to provide really valuable advice,

16:35

or offers, or just educational content really for them

16:39

along that journey.

16:42

- Well, which is stage three, right,

16:43

when you're starting to run, right?

16:44

I mean, and we'll talk,

16:45

we have a whole other slide on segmentation

16:47

and a few different ways,

16:48

and give you folks some ideas

16:49

on how to think about it and do it.

16:52

But I integrated revenue campaigns,

16:54

marketing campaigns are, I think,

16:55

are critically important at like stage two and three,

16:59

where your customers are,

17:01

maybe you build a campaign for your customers,

17:03

that's one way to think about it.

17:04

But then the other way to think about it is,

17:05

how do you actually get your customers

17:07

at in the campaigns that are going more after new business

17:12

and doing that with you, right?

17:14

Like where I'm not gonna say the customer is the offer,

17:17

but the different ways in which you can build trust

17:20

and that relationship with new folks

17:22

at the top, middle of the funnel,

17:24

can be greatly accelerated by doing the right things

17:28

with your customers as part of that integrated revenue campaign.

17:31

So there's gonna be a whole other masterclass

17:33

about that a little bit later.

17:34

We'll hint at that a little bit,

17:36

say 20 minutes in this event,

17:38

but going into this stage,

17:40

when you think about segmentation, Aurelia,

17:42

there's a lot of ways you can segment customers.

17:45

Like how would you think about like an approach

17:48

for someone kind of getting started

17:49

versus someone who's got like, you know,

17:50

hundreds of customers?

17:52

- Yeah, I think if you're getting started,

17:54

I would say, yeah, look at the,

17:56

you probably are selling to one segment already,

17:58

like say commercial or enterprise.

18:01

So I would probably start with the audience,

18:05

so the persona, that way, you know,

18:08

everybody is, there's different roles

18:10

and then you can be much more targeted

18:12

in your messaging to them

18:13

and know what to offer in terms of product innovation

18:18

and content because that's more likely

18:21

what they're gonna care about

18:22

based on what, you know, their workflow and their role.

18:25

So that's how it gets started at the earlier,

18:27

I'd say earlier stage.

18:28

And then I think as you advance,

18:30

I think you start to add in, you know, the segment,

18:34

I think you can add in the vertical.

18:36

I think you start to add in the stage of their journey

18:39

depending on how you've mapped that out at your business,

18:41

right?

18:42

Everybody has some different customer journeys,

18:44

awareness, consideration, purchase,

18:46

I mean, probably at the most basic level,

18:48

but get a lot more sophisticated than that.

18:51

I think some really great ways to do it,

18:53

depending on how well you track product usage is,

18:56

you know, are they using like their,

18:58

how they're using certain parts of your product

19:02

and offering very specific content to them

19:08

based on, you know, what they most recently,

19:10

like what they most commonly use

19:12

or what they most recently used, things like that.

19:15

And I think something that's critical on stage three

19:18

that you mentioned Mark is using your customers to sell.

19:22

Like there's no one better to sell your product

19:27

than the people using it who believe in it.

19:30

And so I'm a big believer in leveraging customers

19:33

at events, at dinners, mixing them with prospects.

19:38

As we talk about new business acquisition, right?

19:40

Prospects wanna hear from people like them

19:43

using your product.

19:45

And of course case studies and references that all helps,

19:48

but nothing beats a one-to-one conversation

19:52

with someone who's just like you

19:54

and you can get the good, you know,

19:57

really understand how they're leveraging your product,

20:00

the value they've seen from it.

20:02

And that brings them, you know, too,

20:04

because I think at the end of the day,

20:05

all purchases are somewhat emotional, right?

20:08

Like even at the highest enterprise level,

20:09

after procurement, after all these stages

20:11

and months and months, you're still gonna go with it.

20:14

And who do you feel is most trustworthy?

20:17

Like who do you feel confident in?

20:19

Do I trust it's gonna do this?

20:21

And I think customers,

20:22

leveraging customers in that capacity

20:23

is a really great way to,

20:26

on the new customer acquisition side,

20:28

get your prospects comfortable

20:31

that you can support them

20:33

and you're gonna be a long-term partner for them.

20:35

- Yeah, which is related to this next slide,

20:37

as we get closer to going through these 11 plays,

20:40

unpack this really quickly.

20:41

Before we do that though,

20:42

that stage three is where,

20:44

if you have a member led growth strategy,

20:46

to a good example of this is HubSpot Academy.

20:47

I know a few people are familiar with HubSpot Academy.

20:50

It's fun fact with that.

20:51

30% of the people in HubSpot Academy,

20:53

at least when I was at HubSpot still,

20:54

this is like end of 2018,

20:57

30% of the, there's millions at that point,

20:59

people were customers, users, free or paid,

21:02

70% were prospects.

21:04

And it did exactly what Aurelia just said.

21:07

We blended these audiences

21:09

and we're gonna talk about audience cross-pollination a second,

21:12

but member led growth is a beautiful play to create

21:17

when you're at these kind of more sophisticated levels

21:19

of customer led growth,

21:20

where you're taking the community and your customers

21:23

and you're bringing them together in one space

21:24

where they just chat.

21:26

They just meet, chat, chat, help each other.

21:29

That is kind of game over type situation.

21:32

And it gets the word of mouth flywheel

21:33

spinning extremely fast.

21:35

Anyone know where these six different words came from?

21:41

There's a source.

21:42

I know some of you folks have probably read the book.

21:45

This is one of the all time great books

21:47

from a product marketing standpoint,

21:48

a marketing standpoint, a sales standpoint.

21:50

Someone's gotta know them.

21:52

Throw it in the chat.

21:53

Anyone know?

21:54

Not coattler, nope, nope, nope.

21:58

Come on, someone's gotta know this.

22:01

All right, no one knows it.

22:03

I'm probably gonna ring a bell very quickly.

22:05

Chaldini, Robert Chaldini.

22:07

So, he's wrote a great book, "Influence."

22:12

Definitely gotta read that book.

22:13

I joke around like you don't read that book,

22:14

you're not a marketer or a sales person,

22:16

which is not true.

22:17

But really, it's gonna open your eyes up.

22:20

So, when you think about these six things,

22:22

we're not gonna go through each one,

22:24

but are rarely like everything we just talked about

22:27

hits on one of these six things.

22:29

Like from your point of view,

22:31

when you think about these six ways to influence people,

22:34

which is through human psychology,

22:36

which one do you really say,

22:38

oh man, this is one you just can't miss?

22:41

- Probably.

22:47

I think the first one, like obviously they all matter,

22:50

but to me, it's like the equation of,

22:54

I need to create value for you

22:56

before I can ask for anything in return.

22:59

So, I think that's the one I would put like at the,

23:05

I mean, it's listed number one,

23:06

but also if I were to choose only one,

23:08

that's the one I would do.

23:10

I think the second, which you didn't ask me,

23:12

but I would probably do authority

23:15

because people want, are looking to you

23:17

as experts in your product, in your brand,

23:19

and they don't know, we don't know what we don't know, right?

23:22

Like we didn't build the product,

23:23

we're doing other things.

23:24

Like I want you, Mark, to tell me how best to use

23:27

your product that you built,

23:29

or be able to answer my question.

23:31

So that would probably be my second choice.

23:33

- Yeah, and the more that you can be the broker,

23:37

going back to the comment I made about Member Let Growth,

23:39

and the customer and prospect meeting with you

23:43

being that broker, which is the liking principle.

23:47

Like that is super powerful, right?

23:50

I know, John, you were part of the HubSpot ecosystem

23:53

for a long time, inbound's coming up next week.

23:56

By the way, if you're going to inbound,

23:57

let us know in the chat,

23:58

Nick and I would love to meet up with you.

24:00

Like that is just a way to broker connections

24:04

and introductions and relationships

24:06

and partnerships that have already been created.

24:08

HubSpot is just a facilitator, facilitator, broker,

24:10

matchmaker, whatever you wanna say, right?

24:12

That's another way to think about customer-led growth

24:14

and customer marketing.

24:16

It does not have to be this like crazy, sophisticated

24:18

program, whatever, just, just, that's it, right?

24:22

Go ahead, really.

24:24

- And well, and I think one thing about

24:26

how reciprocation ties to liking is,

24:28

if I create value for you first, right?

24:31

And then ask for something like,

24:33

how do you influence people?

24:34

Like everyone's motivated in different ways,

24:36

you need to understand that, but at the heart of it,

24:38

you have to do something for somebody, right?

24:41

You're understanding what motivates them

24:45

and that's how you're able to influence them.

24:49

And so I think that, I love that connection

24:53

because as you, if you really understand,

24:57

then you know how to create value for them

24:59

and then you're starting to influence,

25:01

you're starting that liking process.

25:03

And as you said, that's so foundational and critical.

25:09

- Exactly.

25:10

So here's just one high level way to think about this stuff.

25:14

Like, we're not gonna go through this

25:16

for more than two minutes,

25:17

but how do you determine your customers

25:21

from an account standpoint that are great fits versus,

25:25

and we put buying intent here,

25:27

this could be any intent, product usage intent,

25:30

loyalty intent, loveability intent, right?

25:35

Like, how do you, going back to what I really were saying

25:38

in terms of voice to customer data collection

25:40

in a scalable way, non-scalable way?

25:44

Like, how do you figure out the X and Y axes

25:47

to then segment?

25:48

And ABCD needs just the quality of the account, right?

25:51

Some of these accounts you'll wanna partner with more,

25:54

some less, there's ICP, non-ICP,

25:57

but like if you don't go through a way to segment,

25:59

I think you're gonna miss, first off,

26:03

you're not gonna focus enough.

26:04

And the great, to be great at this,

26:06

you gotta start with high impact low effort, if you will,

26:11

'cause then you'll just start to get like,

26:15

whoa, this is amazing, we should invest more in this,

26:18

because this is typically a very under-invested thing

26:21

in marketing teams, right, or earlier,

26:22

so it's like, how can you show that low impact, low cost,

26:26

sorry, low effort, low cost to high impact?

26:30

This is kinda one way to think about it.

26:31

Anything you would add here though?

26:32

- Yeah, and I just think it's,

26:34

obviously you need to your company,

26:35

but thinking about what are the criteria

26:37

that makes your customers successful,

26:40

like in your product successful for them, right,

26:43

like a fit for them, so I know a drift,

26:45

and actually something we use at daygirls,

26:47

like looking at as a very specific criteria

26:49

is website volume, and that's a proxy

26:53

for certain things for us, right,

26:55

now that's one specific thing,

26:56

but we know that falls into like,

26:58

you're a good account fit, right, if you have this.

27:00

Now there's some other criteria

27:02

that need to be the case as well,

27:04

but starting to get really specific for your company

27:08

is just gonna help you do exactly what you just said,

27:11

Mark, of the low effort, high impact.

27:14

- Perfect, let me see, there's any questions about this.

27:18

I don't think so, so we could move on.

27:20

We're gonna play a game in just a second, two folks.

27:23

- Really, before we talk about the plays

27:25

and play this quick game,

27:26

talk to us about cross-pollination of audiences,

27:30

and how you thought about this,

27:31

and how you've done in the past some examples.

27:33

'Cause this is super important.

27:35

- Yeah, I think I brought up a little bit earlier

27:38

with bringing customers and prospects together

27:40

as an example of cross-pollination at events,

27:43

huge avenue to do that, dinners,

27:47

if you do like smaller prospect dinners, right,

27:49

or regional dinners that you're doing,

27:51

having your local customers come by there as well.

27:54

You can even do, I mean, Edriff,

27:56

we did those demo series where we hosted demos once a month

28:01

for prospects and existing customers,

28:03

and in fact, we would try to highlight when we could

28:05

or have a customer part of it,

28:08

speaking to it as well.

28:10

So those are probably some examples,

28:12

but I also think there's audience cross-pollination

28:14

in your existing customers.

28:15

There doesn't need to be prospects and customers.

28:17

I've done, I've brought them them together

28:19

just on like a Zoom call.

28:20

Like you get 10, five to 10 customers,

28:24

you get them together on a Zoom call,

28:25

'cause everyone's in different places, right,

28:26

if you can't get them in person.

28:29

And you might bring customers

28:32

who are in the same vertical together, right,

28:33

as an example, if you sell dessert verticals,

28:35

then they can talk to each other about,

28:38

how they're best using your product for their needs.

28:44

And it's funny, like I've run so many of these

28:46

where I've like a talk track, not talk track,

28:49

but I have talking points ready

28:51

to keep facilitate the conversation,

28:52

and I never need it because customers

28:55

are happy to be talking to each other.

28:56

They just get into their own conversation

28:59

and are sharing best practices

29:00

and building that network and connection.

29:03

And I think that's a multiplier effect, right?

29:05

Not just like their networking too

29:08

and meeting folks in their industry or like peers, right?

29:12

Maybe the same size company,

29:14

maybe the same persona,

29:16

maybe they sell the same audience.

29:18

There's many different ways of how I'd bring

29:20

some customers together.

29:21

And then I think the third is probably bring customers together

29:24

who have different point of view.

29:25

So at Drift as an example, we sold marketers,

29:28

we sold to sellers,

29:29

and then most recently we started to selling

29:31

to like CS and support teams.

29:34

And so we actually made a really big effort

29:36

at our customer advisory board and other events

29:39

to bring stakeholders that fit those different personas

29:44

because the value of Drift is tenfold

29:47

when you have all those teams working together

29:50

and thinking about their strategy,

29:52

their digital strategy together.

29:54

And so I think, yes, they're not gonna have the same workflows

29:56

and they're certainly gonna be using your product

29:58

in different ways,

29:59

but there's still a lot of great sharing

30:01

and understanding of that sort of multiplier effect,

30:04

I think of bringing those folks together.

30:07

- Well said.

30:09

All right, so I'm gonna pull something up

30:10

before we go to the 11 plays.

30:11

There's a fun game.

30:13

I told folks there was gonna be two winners to today's event.

30:16

They're gonna get these custom ceramic

30:18

really high-end mugs, Aurelia.

30:20

So let me, yeah, I'll get you one too, don't worry.

30:24

I'm gonna pull up the screen.

30:26

Do you all folks see the spinning wheel?

30:28

Spinning wheel?

30:29

I love the spinning wheel.

30:29

All right, here we go.

30:30

Let's spin it.

30:31

Let's see who wins the first mug.

30:32

If you win, just send me your address.

30:34

And Kyle, I know you already have one.

30:35

I'll send you some other type of tack or clap-f merch.

30:39

Ramley, congratulations.

30:41

You got a mug, you got a mug, all right?

30:45

So just send me your address in the chat.

30:48

And you got that.

30:50

Let's do one more time.

30:51

Let's see who's gonna win the next one.

30:53

I love coffee, Aurelia, you love coffee, right?

30:55

Yeah, yes.

30:56

I was saying mug, I mean, this is great.

30:58

You can use mug, you can use it for anything.

31:00

John, congratulations, you win the mug.

31:04

It's for tea, it's very nice.

31:07

So that was a little fun game.

31:08

All right, I'll stop.

31:09

There's plenty more opportunities to win mugs

31:13

if you want to, come to more of these.

31:16

Let me go back to the slides though.

31:22

We may have some merch at Inbound, Nick, is that true?

31:25

I think that is true.

31:27

Nick's the head of merch.

31:29

Actually, fun fact, my wife is the head of merch.

31:33

She knows it the best.

31:35

My wife Sarah, so let me actually just pull this back up.

31:37

Hold on, sorry.

31:38

One thing I don't love about Zoom

31:41

is how you do screen share.

31:42

I wish there was a slightly better way.

31:45

Here we go.

31:47

All right, let's get into the place.

31:49

Cusser marketing place.

31:49

My kids love these blocks.

31:52

So the reason why I use this as,

31:55

I guess you could say this is an analogy.

31:59

So these blocks are like these plays,

32:02

meaning you can put different pieces together

32:06

across content led, event led and product led growth offers

32:10

that are part of that people first go to market model.

32:12

And you could also use all these plays

32:14

in those three channels we talk about.

32:16

Of course, like to activate the demand

32:18

at the top of the funnel, create demand

32:21

to capture that demand when you're trying to bring people

32:24

into more of a membership experience

32:25

and more unique bespoke experience with your company and brand.

32:28

We did that with Drift Insider, I was part academy.

32:31

There's so many ways you can get started with that

32:32

at a very low cost, easy to do.

32:34

And then of course with customer led growth.

32:36

So we're gonna unpack each one.

32:38

I want you to think though about how you can use these

32:40

in different ways to create different pieces

32:44

or master pieces, right?

32:45

Like just like my kids and their blocks.

32:48

So first benchmark, we're coming out of the gate

32:51

really hot Aurelia.

32:52

This is one that I think so many people underutilize.

32:55

So like I noticed a passion of yours, passion of mine.

32:58

This is definitely a foundation of block building.

33:01

Talk to us about this one.

33:03

- Yeah.

33:04

So you need to understand what value.

33:09

So this is a framework too for those who are familiar

33:12

for management sort of command of the message.

33:14

So you need to understand what value do you deliver

33:19

to your customers at the highest level?

33:22

Like what is that value driver?

33:24

Is it about driving more quality pipeline?

33:27

Is it generating more revenues?

33:29

Is it lowering costs?

33:29

Right.

33:30

This is a high like a high level value

33:33

that you're gonna deliver to majority of your customers.

33:36

And you probably actually, you might have four,

33:39

you might have one, you might have two.

33:41

And if you have four, as you're talking with prospects

33:44

and customers, they're only likely gonna care

33:46

about one or two of them.

33:47

So your job is to start to understand what is that,

33:50

what value can we deliver to them based on their challenges,

33:55

their goals, et cetera.

33:56

So that brings a second is buyer pain, right?

33:59

So you need to understand and order to understand

34:01

which value you deliver is your,

34:04

you're listening to your customer.

34:05

You're listening to their challenges, their current pains,

34:09

what some of their goals are,

34:12

which gets you into positive business outcomes.

34:13

So if they were to achieve success, right?

34:17

What would that positive business outcome look like to them?

34:22

And these are in their words in the best, ideally, right?

34:25

You're doing this like,

34:26

based on all your conversations with customers and prospects.

34:28

Like what are those PBOs to use the acronym?

34:32

Of if they're using your product,

34:36

you're delivering the value, resolving their pain,

34:38

what would that positive business outcome look like for them?

34:40

And again, the key here is business outcome.

34:43

So it's high level and this is allowing you to sell

34:46

and talk to the executive.

34:48

- Let's give an example.

34:49

So an example at Drift,

34:50

the most critical positive business outcome

34:52

that we could get to that was a leading indicator of success

34:54

was two things.

34:56

Number of conversations, people, the customers

34:59

and their prospects and customers

35:00

were having with the chat bot, right?

35:03

Or just chat overall.

35:04

And then how many meetings they were booking.

35:06

So like we could take,

35:07

really, and I did this,

35:08

we could take all of the data from all of our customers

35:10

free and paid and anonymize that data and say,

35:13

on average, someone after three months of using Drift

35:17

sees this many conversations, this many meetings

35:19

and that's much pipeline and revenue.

35:20

So if you're a SaaS product or if you're a product

35:23

that allows you to capture data

35:25

about how people are using your product

35:27

and the, to really just point,

35:30

the PBOs that come from that usage lean into this heart.

35:34

- Yeah. - Like,

35:34

only you have this data.

35:36

Like no one else has this data.

35:38

- Yeah.

35:39

Yeah.

35:40

That was such a good example.

35:42

Yeah, we looked through all of that.

35:43

And then we saw, okay, how did that tie to pipeline, right?

35:47

As an end revenue and those indicators.

35:51

And I think when you get to require capability

35:54

that's thinking about what do you need,

35:56

this isn't differentiation yet.

35:58

It's what do they need to accomplish this?

36:01

What are those capabilities that your customers,

36:04

your prospects need?

36:05

And of course, like you should be influencing this ideally, right?

36:08

To, but it should be based on also what they actually need

36:11

because your product delivers that

36:13

and that's how they can accomplish with their goals.

36:16

And then there's a little bit of like,

36:19

what are those capabilities that are differentiated?

36:21

But we're not in that step yet.

36:23

But what are those core capabilities?

36:25

And then, you know, why tailoring it obviously for them

36:30

and thinking about what, to the extent you can get there,

36:32

like what would an ROI look like to them?

36:36

And this is probably too early to have a lot of like quantitative,

36:39

but you might be able to have gotten some data from them

36:41

in early discovery conversations

36:43

or if they've been a customer for a while

36:46

and you have the data on them.

36:48

It's cool.

36:48

This is a great opportunity to build a business case.

36:50

We did that a lot with our data science scene

36:53

would help us, right, pull specific data on our customers.

36:57

And we could build out if you were to, you know,

37:00

you have this challenge, you want to accomplish this.

37:02

If you leverage drift in this way,

37:05

like here is the return you're going to see

37:06

from a pipeline perspective.

37:08

We're going to increase your meetings this much.

37:10

We're going to increase your first conversations as much.

37:12

Then your meetings, that's going to input to X% increase

37:16

or times on pipeline and revenue.

37:18

Yeah.

37:20

Tertie models, Mark and I spent a lot of time

37:26

on this one together.

37:30

I think you're on mute, Mark.

37:32

Oh, I'm mute, sorry.

37:33

I clicked on the next slide.

37:34

Sorry, I think you got too excited.

37:35

Like as you were talking, because this is what you're talking about,

37:37

like Drift still uses this.

37:38

I mean, this is how we align marketing sales and CS

37:40

from a value articulation and creation standpoint.

37:42

And this could be as complicated or as simple as you want to make it.

37:45

Like, but the key is you have benchmark data

37:48

for each of these stages.

37:49

So you can say, well, when you get to stage three, on average,

37:51

our customers see this type of pipeline,

37:54

this type of deal acceleration,

37:55

whatever those business outcomes are.

37:58

And you can say, after six months,

38:00

this is what you should be saying.

38:01

Right? Like, I mean, it's like, and again, like, who do they believe?

38:03

Well, they believe, hopefully you more now,

38:06

because you're saying, here's customer data.

38:08

And then if you take a customer reference,

38:09

which we'll talk about as one of the other 11 plays and say,

38:12

oh, yeah, I'm at stage three.

38:13

I definitely got that.

38:15

It's about one, two punch.

38:16

How could they argue that?

38:18

You can't really argue that.

38:19

So anyway.

38:20

Right. And how do you like, I think what makes this so power

38:23

and Mark and I've spent endless hours together building this

38:26

and looking through so much customer data

38:28

and it's, I think that the value to,

38:33

beyond what you just mentioned, or addition to what you just said,

38:36

is if I'm a customer in stage one,

38:38

I can then say explicitly to you,

38:42

here is how you get to stage two.

38:44

These are the ways you need to use our products.

38:47

Specifically, you need to use these three features

38:51

that you're not using, or you need to turn on this capability

38:55

and leverage it four times more often than you are.

38:59

Like whatever, however your model is of your business.

39:02

And here are example customers who have made the jump

39:06

from stage one to stage two, you can speak with them.

39:10

And here are the results that they've seen since making the jump.

39:15

And that is so powerful and it might be hard to do that for stages

39:20

like four and five depending on your business.

39:23

Like if you, how much customer, it's all about how much customer data you have.

39:26

So think about that as you're building your maturity model to Mark's point.

39:29

Like we could do five stages because we had a ton of customer data

39:33

and we had customers mature, but if you're earlier on

39:38

and like only a couple years in business or whatever it is,

39:40

like you're probably not going to have five stages yet

39:43

and that's totally fine.

39:45

Look at your data of what your, how your customers are using it

39:48

and then also marry how you built your product for them to be using it.

39:53

Because you could have some customers in stage one, for example,

39:56

who aren't fully, aren't fully using everything in stage one.

40:00

And so your goal is to help them see that, what they need to do

40:04

and how doing that's going to help them accomplish their goals.

40:07

Yeah, as a quick plug, we offer this as one of our strategic services as part

40:14

of TAC.

40:14

We're actually looking, probably to sign a customer, a client this week

40:18

who's looking to build one as well.

40:21

These are extremely important as you move up market by the way.

40:24

As you move more than an enterprise, we had customers bring this into the board

40:27

room

40:27

to show people why they should spend half a million dollars on Drift.

40:30

And here's the justification of that, everything that really just said,

40:33

business case development, everything.

40:35

Which gets kind of to the next one, which is integrated revenue framework.

40:39

So we're going to do a whole master class about this in the club in a few,

40:43

probably in two months, because that's when the calendar allows.

40:46

I'm going to teach this class.

40:48

Aurelian and I use this framework heavily at Drift.

40:50

I used it at Airmeet.

40:52

But basically, think about the maturity model as an offer.

40:55

And you have the overall campaign program, which is like, here's the audience

41:01

for the campaign.

41:02

It's, you know, the audience could be persona.

41:04

It could be a vertical.

41:05

It could be a combination of account targeting and, you know, persona level

41:08

targeting.

41:09

But here's the big wider audience for the campaign.

41:12

And then here are some targeted programs that have specific audiences

41:16

that still want to be on that campaign level message, but they're nuanced,

41:20

because maybe it's a specific persona or specific vertical or specific set of

41:24

accounts or something

41:25

like that.

41:26

The key is out of all the stuff we're going to talk about today and in the next

41:30

, say, 10 minutes,

41:31

this should have really been a 90 minute event.

41:33

This is, there's a lot of stuff here.

41:34

You can use these things as offers.

41:38

So you think of the maturity model, that's an offer.

41:40

When you think about a customer advisory board, that's an offer, right?

41:44

Like it might be a very narrow audience that you want to put that in front of,

41:47

but that's an offer, right?

41:48

So think about these things that we're talking about today in this framework

41:52

and

41:52

will help you bring them to life.

41:53

Of course, the customer story in an event, a customer example, some content

41:58

that we'll talk

41:58

about in a few minutes, those are all offers, but they can also be things that

42:02

aren't always

42:02

your traditional, like, type of offer that you can put into this, right?

42:06

Your customer reference program can be an offer that's used for your Spire

42:10

Sales team.

42:10

And guess what your sales team is the channel that you would use that offer to

42:14

activate it with,

42:14

because you're probably not going to put that offer on a Paydad, for example.

42:17

Yeah, anyway, is anything else you want to quickly add here?

42:21

No, I think that that covers up.

42:22

Perfect. Speaking of reference programs, I did a T up on purpose.

42:27

I do think this is probably one of the most underutilized things that companies

42:31

today.

42:31

Yeah.

42:33

Like how did you build the one at Drift?

42:34

Do you have one at Data, you know, Gray, like what's going on?

42:37

Yeah, so funny enough, like, yeah, Drift didn't have like, we sort of ad hoc

42:42

found customers and we're like, can you talk to our prospects?

42:45

But the key is, is you don't then none of us want to like inundate customers,

42:50

right?

42:50

Like you don't want to be asking the same customer all the time.

42:53

And so you need to track, you need to understand who is, who are you using for

42:57

references and

42:58

what in what capacity? Like, are they, are they just speaking on, are they

43:02

attending an event?

43:03

Are they attending a dinner? Are they hopping on a call?

43:06

Are like, there's different forms of reference, right? And so,

43:10

the key is, we talked about earlier, is you need to identify who are the

43:14

customers that you're

43:15

going to target first that you want in your reference. And that's going to be

43:19

based on your

43:19

ICP as well, right? Like you want a diverse reference program as much as

43:23

possible.

43:23

You want the different personas, you want different industries, different

43:26

vertical sizes,

43:27

because the end of the day, people want to talk to people that are like them.

43:30

And so as your reps are selling, you're going to need, ideally you have

43:33

profiles of customers

43:35

that fit those. There is always those like niche random requests that like

43:40

nobody like has.

43:42

But, you know, I think if you can segment as much as possible, or like, I think

43:48

one of the keys of

43:48

building a reference program is you'll start to identify what gaps you have in

43:51

your customer base

43:53

for references. So perhaps you have a lot of commercial and mid-market

43:56

customers in financial

43:57

services, but you're really lacking enterprise customers and, you know,

44:02

manufacturing as an example.

44:04

Like that's going to then help your customer marketing team. If you have

44:07

someone running the

44:08

reference program or target specifically working with CS and sales, like what

44:12

are, who are customers

44:13

I can target to try to bring into this. And the other part, there are different

44:17

tools you can do

44:18

to like track references. And how do you like contract and sales force or hub

44:24

spot or different

44:25

places that you know who's being used on different opportunities. You also can

44:30

pay customers.

44:32

So something that we rolled out a drift we call the marketing commitments

44:35

program.

44:36

And it ties into references and some of what we're going to talk about next,

44:39

but you if in exchange

44:42

for leveraging your logo or attending an event or use it, quoting you or

44:47

hopping being a reference

44:48

on a call, like you we created a list of things. And we said in exchange for

44:53

that sales reps,

44:55

you can give a discount to the customer. And that's an extra lever for them.

45:01

And then depending on

45:03

how much the customer was willing to participate, that discount went a higher

45:09

or lower, right?

45:10

It's on how many like commitments call it they would sign up for in a year, so

45:15

to speak.

45:16

So that's like a tactical way that we actually built it at Drift and then

45:20

tracked it every

45:22

quarter, you know, all the time and looked at it quarterly to identify where,

45:26

you know,

45:26

maybe we had gaps so needed to to add some folks. Fantastic examples. You can

45:32

do this at scale.

45:33

You can do this when you have five customers, right? Like we're doing it within

45:37

club PF right

45:38

now. It does not matter. Like just just it. It's just all about like finding a

45:42

few people that

45:42

are seeing value that believing in what you're saying, right? Especially when

45:47

it aligns to your

45:47

point of view and like, you know, what you stand for and just asking them like,

45:52

hey,

45:53

like we're looking to build a reference program. Like, are you interested in

45:56

that? And like,

45:56

build it with them. The key with this too, I think, really is when you think

45:59

about reference

45:59

programs, don't just like force something on someone initially as well, like

46:03

build it with

46:03

your customers, not just for them. Yep. And I think one thing too, I forgot to

46:08

add is like,

46:09

then you track how this is influencing pipeline and closed one. So you can see

46:12

if a reference was

46:13

used in a deal. Like, what did that pipeline like ARR look like? What did that

46:18

closed deal

46:19

win or lose? And then as you get more sophisticated, where in the cycle, like

46:24

where in the sales

46:25

process was a reference used? Oftentimes, you see reps do it at the end. And I

46:30

think that's too late

46:31

because at that point, you've made your decision. Bring it early as we talked

46:34

about customer self

46:35

for you. They are your voice of your brand of your product. Like let them

46:39

engage with prospects

46:40

earlier on or existing customers from an expansion perspective, right? Like you

46:45

can use references

46:46

for new business, but also with other customers looking to expand and add

46:50

things within your stack.

46:52

Yeah, great. 100%. Next one's kind of obvious, but I just don't know why more

46:57

people don't do it.

46:58

Like this is how HubSpot Academy started, by the way, we built webinars. We

47:01

didn't call them webinars.

47:02

I would definitely change the positioning, but live training for customers. And

47:06

guess what?

47:07

Prospects and buyers started to find out about them. And eventually, it became

47:11

50/50. Eventually,

47:12

it became actually more prospects and buyers coming at these than customers.

47:15

And guess what

47:15

happened? Those people ended up buying because it's just pure education, right?

47:19

This is a

47:20

clavio, by the way, clavio. One of the most tremendous people first go to

47:27

market examples

47:27

as of recent. I did a post on this on LinkedIn. I also shared it in the club in

47:31

the dance floor.

47:33

Clavio is the entire model, this partner led. And they're using almost all

47:36

seven of those things.

47:37

They are using all seven, some more than others, to go to market. And they're a

47:41

profitable company

47:42

at half a billion dollars going public very soon. And what they do, if you go

47:45

to their website,

47:46

they see this live right in their website right now. It's in the top nav

47:51

underneath one of the

47:52

dropdowns. And they believe in this so much that they made it front and center.

47:56

So again,

47:58

you don't have to do this at scale. You could do one a month, one a quarter.

48:01

Like, I don't care

48:02

what you do, but do something live with your customers when it comes to

48:06

teaching them. And then

48:07

we'll do a whole set of curriculum on this eventually, but like measuring the

48:11

impact of this type of

48:12

stuff before they attend and after they attend. There's scientific ways you can

48:16

get really good

48:16

at understanding the impact on usage, retention, expansion, when you do these

48:21

things. To start

48:22

though, just start doing them and invite one or two customers to participate

48:26

with you in the

48:28

webinar. Again, call it something different and you'll see some magic start to

48:31

happen,

48:32

which is related to events earlier. Not going to go through all of these. Sum

48:37

mits are big

48:37

great, but like, you know, they're going to take a lot of time and scale. User

48:41

groups,

48:41

you need critical mass to do a user group. Maybe, maybe not. It depends, right?

48:46

Look,

48:47

a good active user group can be done in, you know, one city with 10, 15 people,

48:52

but it needs

48:52

to keep growing. You're not going to just be able to keep recycling 10, 15

48:56

people. So again,

48:57

those are more at scale. Customer advisory board, you could do that literally

49:00

before

49:00

your product market fits. You probably should, right? I mean, it's like design

49:04

thinking,

49:04

design groups, stuff like that, right? Or really, like design partners, I

49:07

should say.

49:07

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it can evolve too, obviously, as you grow and, you know

49:12

we're a data grow small, so we're doing one this year, but, you know, when I've

49:17

been at

49:18

Enronok Athena, bigger companies, we did two a year and they become much more

49:22

high-end and

49:23

blah, blah, blah. But again, yeah, as we talked about, crawl walk, run all of

49:27

these, like,

49:27

can scale as well. Go back to that model. That's what I'm telling you all, like

49:32

right now,

49:32

like do not try to bite off more than you could chew. I've been in that

49:35

situation. I've tried to

49:36

bite off more than I can chew and it does not pan out well, which just doesn't

49:41

pan out well.

49:42

Ecosystem events, I found this term just the other day. I think it was

49:45

yesterday in LinkedIn,

49:47

from the CEO of Excel events, I'm like, I love that term ecosystem events.

49:51

The end of the day, people first go to market is about helping you create a big

49:53

or small ecosystem.

49:54

So go to events where your customers are participating in and maybe you just

49:59

show up.

49:59

You don't even have to do anything other than host to dinner. Look at what Nick

50:02

and I are doing.

50:02

We're not spending money on inbound. We're just hosting some people for some

50:06

events,

50:06

doing some co-marketing, things like that. Easy, easy stuff.

50:09

Training education goes back to what I just talked about. Again, there's so

50:14

much stuff here

50:14

that we could unpack. We'll probably do more, we'll definitely do more classes

50:18

than events about

50:19

customer growth. Content, one of my favorite is best practice recipes.

50:24

Here's the exact steps that you should do. You combine that with something you

50:29

said earlier

50:30

about the maturity model. Here's the recipe you followed to do stage one, to do

50:35

stage two,

50:35

etc, etc. Super powerful. It tripped us very specific examples we created,

50:41

really good chat

50:42

bots. It was examples of how to build a chat bot for a specific use case. Then

50:48

we built out

50:49

different best practices of, those are, that might be a specific use case, like

50:55

how to build an

50:55

ABM chat bot play. But then we had a best practice on how to leverage drift for

51:01

ABM,

51:01

which went beyond just the chat bot, but that was part of it. There's many

51:06

different ways and

51:06

levels to take this, but it's so helpful for existing customers and prospects

51:12

so they can

51:12

actually see how they would leverage your product. Building blocks. All of

51:17

these can be built into

51:18

building blocks. What you just said is, again, taking a block, putting it to

51:22

this block,

51:22

and you've got a nice little house that you could present as part of that

51:27

integrated revenue

51:27

campaign. That's all we're trying to do here, right? I think we've talked a lot

51:32

about this.

51:32

The only innovative thing I can say here is think of it as commissions even.

51:36

Aurelian and I were talking with us before. There's some companies now. I haven

51:40

't seen more than two,

51:42

but they're paying customers the commission they would pay a sales rep. No

51:46

exaggeration.

51:48

It's pretty innovative, pretty out there. But look, if that person brings

51:52

sources of the deal, like this customer sources you would do, right? You're

51:57

going to get a commission

51:58

based off that. Not a $500 referral, but $10,000. Like cash. Not like off your

52:03

subscription either,

52:04

but like cash, right? You have to figure out your economics, right? Of course,

52:08

this is about like

52:09

CAC, LTV, you know, you have to be a little more sophisticated before we start

52:12

doing this, but

52:14

I mean, heck, there's some advantages to this. There's some things you got to

52:17

watch out for.

52:17

I do think if I had to put some money on this, I would bet that this becomes

52:20

more common.

52:21

Referrals and references are two things where the software really hasn't caught

52:25

up in terms of how

52:26

to do it and track it at scale. And also the actual methodology around it. I

52:30

think the team at Reveal

52:31

is doing some interesting things with the idea of narrowbound and intros,

52:35

influence, and intelligence

52:36

when it comes to deal making. But yeah, commission, that's a big one. I really.

52:42

And it's an interesting one that I think is starting up for some places. I

52:46

think to

52:47

my point, I think I have a stat that 70% of new business deals come from

52:51

referrals.

52:52

So, you know, this is just such a to the title of today, like customer

52:58

marketing for, you know,

52:59

new customer acquisition. Like, this is such a golden ticket to do it. So

53:05

really thinking about,

53:06

again, that ties into having the right reference program. Like, you need to

53:10

have the folks who can

53:12

be who can refer and they might do it on their own goodwill. And some people

53:16

will do it. I know

53:17

people feel differently about commissions, but some people are motivated. Again

53:21

, it gets to

53:21

understanding what are they motivated by? Are they motivated because they just

53:24

truly love your

53:24

brand? Are they motivated to network and meet some other folks? Are they

53:27

motivated because they

53:28

like your product and want to be compensated? Like, think about, you can think

53:32

about that and have

53:33

different offers for folks to drive more referrals.

53:39

All right. So we got three more reviews.

53:42

I don't know. I'm actually like, this is like a necessary evil now.

53:47

Yeah, I think you find the review site, you know, I know find the review site

53:53

that matters most for

53:54

your customers. Where do they go? Is it G2? Is it trust radius? Is it, you know

53:58

, an app exchange

53:58

and open source? Like, where are they, where are they engaging? And, you know,

54:03

you can do something

54:03

we did at Drift. Is we, we spiffed our CSMs to get customers to, you know, we

54:09

said, hey, like,

54:10

if you have great customers who are happy, like talk to them and ask them to

54:14

leave a review. And,

54:15

you know, the CSM got a spiff to do that. So you have to find the internal

54:20

motivators

54:21

in your company to do that. And I think the tricky part with this from a

54:25

compensation

54:25

perspective for customers is you can only know it's a customer if they leave

54:28

their name publicly,

54:30

right? So you can't necessarily compensate them for leaving a review. But you,

54:35

there's ways to drive

54:38

more, more reviews. And the only other thing I would take with a grain of salt

54:42

with reviews is

54:43

you're going to get the folks who are really unhappy and really happy. Like,

54:46

you're not going

54:46

to get the middle of the road, people. So just remember that when you're also

54:52

leveraging this

54:53

for for customers, which is why I think references and referrals are so much

54:57

more important to use

54:59

with your existing customers and prospects than just relying on reviews, but a

55:03

necessary evil,

55:04

as you said, Mark. Agree. Agree. And I think, you know, John's point of charity

55:09

, you know,

55:10

contributions makes a big difference. Great call. I would look, I could spend

55:14

hours on this one.

55:15

I know we're like at time. I'm sure a lot of us have things to do. I got

55:18

something to do. So

55:19

we're going to keep this very brief. Apologies. We'll do another masterclasser

55:23

event about this,

55:23

but certifications are a goldmine to getting your word of mouth and brand

55:28

building flywheel spinning,

55:30

along with ecosystem. I mean, I have probably more experience than this than

55:34

most. And all I can

55:35

say is don't take this lightly. Don't just do it to do it. Really think through

55:39

it. I'm happy to,

55:40

you know, talk to you about it. There's one to many ways, one to few ways, one

55:44

to one ways to

55:45

do certifications, but they are an amazing builder of trust. If you do it right

55:50

. So message me if

55:52

you want more information about certifications. Very untapped customer

55:56

marketing piece. But if

55:57

you look at again, Clavio, they have a lot of certifications. And that's how

56:01

they spin that

56:02

flywheel, especially when it comes to their partnership strategy with Shopify.

56:06

Customer cons,

56:07

another one that we probably just don't have enough, definitely have time to,

56:10

rarely, but like this goes back to segmentation, right?

56:13

Yep. Yes. I mean, I think understanding what channels, right, like again, the

56:19

time, like what

56:19

channels your customers want to engage with you through. There's so many

56:22

different mediums now.

56:23

So really understand that. And then obviously segmenting. So who are you

56:28

targeting with

56:29

communications or customer newsletters? There are emails or phone call. I mean,

56:35

you name it.

56:36

You could engage with a customer in any way possible today, probably. So just

56:40

understand like,

56:41

based on your segments, you have to cohort your customers first. I mean, that's

56:45

like the number

56:45

one sort of base step as we talked about. And then understand who, how do they

56:51

want to engage?

56:52

And maybe you can be more sophisticated within a segment and cohort based on

56:56

communication

56:57

preferences. Or you try a few different ones, knowing that like some people are

57:01

going to engage

57:01

more on in the community. Some people are going to engage more in app, right?

57:06

Through

57:06

in app notifications and communication. Some are going to be more via email,

57:11

whatever it is.

57:12

Like maybe you, you do it a few different ways so that you have your highest

57:15

chances of engagement.

57:17

Good thoughts there. Last slide. Measure what matters. There's so much to

57:23

impact in this slide.

57:25

This is why we built the club and community folks. We're going to do master

57:27

classes and

57:27

events about all these things. One of my favorite things that almost no one

57:30

talks about today,

57:31

if you Google this, I don't even know if stuff comes up. Leading indicator to

57:35

retention. L-I-R.

57:37

Anyone ever heard of that term? This is one that's probably the most important.

57:42

It goes back to benchmark data adoption, value, etc. I'll unpack that at a

57:51

later date.

57:52

Cohorts or everything goes back to segmentation. So, a SaaS business looks at

57:56

monthly cohorts.

57:57

If you're not looking at a monthly cohort or your customers, please start doing

58:00

that.

58:01

And you can look at that based off of new customer acquisition, based off the

58:05

channel they came

58:06

in if you're getting at scale with these things, based off of the sales reps

58:10

that sold them.

58:10

There's so we look at cohorts. Cohorts are critical. Influenced pipeline

58:16

revenue,

58:17

NPSN outcomes, we talked about that and product and customer engagement. So, it

58:20

's not just product

58:21

engagement, but how much are your customers engaging with things that aren't

58:24

your product?

58:25

So, the events, the content, the certifications, the references, the referrals,

58:30

all the things that

58:31

we just went through, can you start to identify how much engagement and account

58:36

and the different

58:36

people at an account are showing that's getting to that level three, stage

58:41

three of customer-led

58:42

growth. And you start to really think about more customized approaches to

58:47

growing with your customers.

58:48

What's the last thing you want to say, Aurelia?

58:50

I just made me think of this that in terms of customer engagement, another

58:54

thing that we did at

58:56

Drift, we do a data grow, I think is leveraging your customers internally for

59:01

your employees.

59:01

Your employees are a huge part of your success and your customers can bring so

59:09

much excitement

59:10

to them, motivate them. We use them at companywide, all hands, department

59:17

meetings, leveraging

59:20

your customers for your employees to hear directly for them is a goldmine to

59:24

improve how you're

59:25

supporting them, how you're building product, just motivating your employees

59:29

for your brand.

59:30

So, that was just that one came to mind as we were thinking about other ways to

59:35

engage with

59:36

customers. Well said, and folks who are part of the club PF, we thank you, we

59:41

're grateful for

59:41

you. Thank you so much. If you're not part of the club yet, I highly encourage

59:44

you to check it out.

59:45

You'll learn a ton more about all the stuff we talked about today in the club.

59:48

And yeah, thanks everyone for coming today. I hope you liked it. Time out of

59:54

your welcome.

59:55

Buzzy brains buzzing. I love that.

59:58

I really a big thank you to you. Thank you for taking the time.

01:00:01

Of course. Thank you for having me. This was a ton of fun.

01:00:03

Everyone, we'll see you at the next one. Have a great rest of your day and week

01:00:08

. Take care.

01:00:09

Bye.

01:00:10

Bye.

01:00:11

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