AI Job Takeover, NBA's Media Shift, & Marketing Leadership
Is AI actually helping us be more productive? What can we learn from the NBA's recent marketing moves? And we’re joined by Katie Foote, CMO of CaptivateIQ.
There's so many streaming services.
So now you're paying for all of these things
and just think about that.
So you're actually probably paying more
than you were paying before.
You need to be pushing and pulling the customers with you
'cause they look to us, many of our customers look to us
as kind of that de facto person in charge.
- In a marketing organization, you need relief valves for sure.
Like you always have to have contractors on speed dial,
agencies on speed dial,
but you have to make sure that they're willing to go deep
with you and understand your business.
(dramatic music)
- Real talk, backed up with real action.
This is GTM NewsDesk.
I'm Nick Bennett and I'm Mark Killens.
Let's see what's trending.
(upbeat music)
- Welcome to another edition of GTM NewsDesk.
My name is Mark Killens, Nick, what's going on?
- Happy whatever day we're on.
I'm excited to be here.
Happy Sunday, we're recording the Sunday morning 8 AM.
So you got Nick and I on a great day.
First featured headline story.
AI is going to take everyone's jobs, Nick.
You're fired, Nick.
I mean, that's basically what we've been hearing
for like how many years now?
- Yeah, it won't be the first time that I've heard that.
So.
- No kidding.
So if you check out Upwork, we'll put the link
as we always do in the show notes.
There was an interesting study they did.
Very recently, it actually came out of McKinsey
and Upwork, I kind of summarized some of it.
It looked at the C-suite leaders
and their point of view on how AI is going to help
with efficiency and productivity,
doing more or less, everyone's favorite term, Nick.
Do more or less, Nick, do more or less.
- I feel like we're doing more or less right now.
It's, but it's, yeah, I see that all the time.
It's like, you know, do the same.
Like, why can't you do more with less budget?
But like, you know, you can only be so scrappy.
- Exactly.
So Katie Food is our featured guest
during segment number three of today's show.
She's an amazing marketing leader, an amazing person.
We get deep into marketing leadership,
a third, we have a lot of questions prepared.
So I picked this newsworthy study
because when you think about AI,
everyone's saying, "Well, look,
you don't have to hire as many people.
You can replace 25%, 30%, maybe half of your marketing team
because AI is going to be able to create all that great content,
do all the sales outreach,
do all the management of the tools
that you have in your tech stack, do editing,
do content repurposing, yes, sure."
I mean, so look, I think there's a disconnect, Nick.
The point of the segment number one today,
there's a disconnect between the C suite
and like, what's really happening on the ground?
'Cause if you look at some of these stats, right?
96% of C suite leaders say they expect AI
to increase the company's overall productivity levels.
Okay, yeah, that's a lot.
I think that's true generally,
but then the question for all of these things
in the studies, how?
Like, who's gonna teach your company
how to do these things, right?
Like, that is the thing that's been missing
in the AI conversation today.
It's like, how is it gonna do it?
What do people need to do?
How are you enabling and empowering people to do that?
Because 39% of companies in that study,
they're already mandating use of AI tools.
Sure, you can tell me to use a tool,
but a tool is worthless if you don't know how to use it.
You take a hammer and you give it to someone
who doesn't know how to use a hammer,
they're gonna do some stupid shit with that hammer probably.
So, I just think this whole AI thing is getting so overblown
and it's in a huge bubble.
Reminds me of the dot com thing when you're like pets.com,
told at paper.com, everything.fn.com,
and it's now everything.fn.ai.
Yeah, it's, well, I do think you're gonna see more people
get hired into AI specific roles.
Like if you go search LinkedIn now for like job titles
that are hiring with AI,
I have seen a huge increase in the number that's on there,
but still, like this is, there's no precedent
that's been set.
So it's like you're creating a job,
but like there's no proven framework or path
or anything like that that shows this is gonna be successful
for hiring a role like this to get these outcomes
that you wanna achieve.
Yeah, and we've talked to Paschus,
Amanda and Menos, Amanda from Spark Toro,
Menos from Sales Intel,
a little bit about this AI thing and whatnot,
and like look, like yes, it's gonna impact us,
but I love your point about like the AI piece of the jobs,
whereas like we need you to come in with a skill set
and a point of view, I mean, maybe not much experience
'cause I mean look, it's only been like a couple of years
at best for this AI stuff to really have taken hold,
but like look, like the people who are gonna be responsible
for figuring how to use AI,
that could be a job right?
Like I could see AI a specific role for Revox.
Like you're a specialist on the Revox scene,
focus on AI, you're a specialist,
maybe across your entire marketing organization
on how to use AI for different jobs within marketing.
I think those are innovative things again,
but that's enabling and then that person's educating
and helping all the other people,
like take this top down mandate
and actually make it real.
So don't just say shit, sea level folks,
back it up with the right level investment
across the entire organization.
- Hmm, preach, preach.
All right, that's segment number one, what's headline number two?
- Headline number two is all about the NBA.
So I don't know about you, I'm a huge Celtics fan,
I know you enjoy the Bruins,
I know you dabble in the Celtics,
nothing wrong there, you know, it's the city of champions,
I guess you kind of have to when you live in Boston,
but if anyone out there hasn't seen this,
the NBA had a new media agreement.
And before we get into our conversation
with Katie around marketing leadership,
I wanted to touch on this because I think
the NBA's new media agreement for 2024, it's massive.
It's not just in terms of dollars though,
is in mass, I think it was like six point something
billion dollars, but it's how it reshapes
the way content is distributed and consumed.
And I think that's the key part here.
And so when I think of, you know,
for the marketers that are listening to this,
there's a few key takeaways.
First, it highlights the evolving kind of media landscape.
So when you think about like streaming,
all of those things,
you have both traditional now in the NBA's smart enough
to understand that like listen,
I can't just rely on traditional programming.
It also has streaming platforms.
It shows the importance of adapting our marketing strategies
to reach audiences wherever they are,
kind of like a people for a mindset.
You're meeting the people where they are.
And it's just a reminder that today's world,
a multi-channel approach isn't just beneficial,
it's essential to everything.
And I'm curious how MLB and NHL,
and I don't even know if a lot of these other ones
could do similar stuff,
but I'm sure that's gonna come down the road.
NFL's kind of already doing it a little bit.
- Just to have.
- The other piece that I wanted to touch on
is the value of content.
So again, going back, you know,
this is almost seven billion dollars
between three different media entities.
So like it underscores how high quality,
engaging content continues to be the cornerstone
of effective marketing.
And so as marketing leaders,
you need to kind of keep investing in content
that resonates with your audience and drives engagement,
but also adds value.
It's interesting to me 'cause like I watch
a decent amount of NBA games,
and you know, I'll be able to put some on, you know,
Amazon, be able to some, watch some on ESPN,
some on ABC.
I think what they're doing here is they're staying ahead
of the curve, they're valuing their content,
they're leveraging the data,
and they're open to partnerships,
which is a huge piece of people first,
and the channels that go along with it.
So I'm excited, it is a massive amount of money,
but I think it's going to be really awesome
to see how this shapes the future for other organizations.
- Well, it's distribution leverage.
So it's a good and a bad thing, right?
'Cause it's giving them like you were alluding to,
access to new audiences,
especially younger demographics,
that do not have any type of traditional cable at all,
and they're just getting all of their programming content
through the cloud, right, through the internet.
So there's that,
but at the same time, it fragments,
you just mentioned like three or four,
it's probably six or seven places,
you don't need to go to get this programming.
So I think it's a blessing and a curse, it's tricky.
I mean, it's,
I mean, money's money, people want more money,
so I get that,
but I do feel like it's probably a positive thing
because cable TV is in a massive decline.
Like that is a really shitty business to be in,
and sports is probably one of the only things
people watch live.
I mean, whoa, yeah.
Why would you watch anything else live?
We just recorded, skip all the commercials.
So it makes sense what I would want to see them do now,
and I think the NFL has done a little bit of this,
and B is a little bit of this as well,
is how do they take all this now
and like bring in the community side of all this?
Like, you know, how do they activate
the fan base a bit more?
The MBI feel like,
feel like it's done the best part
because they've done a lot with Twitter,
but you know, maybe they still do Nick,
you know, like great, they've done a lot of Twitter,
they've done a lot with like social networks, I think, right?
Like they've partnered with growth,
partner with these,
not just media organizations,
but like the actual social networks,
which are also sometimes media delivery mechanisms as well,
to create a connection with the fans.
- Yep, 100%.
And the last thing I'll say is,
I mean, there is another downside
as the consumer of this is think about that.
You now have to go and subscribe.
Like, so I pay for cable,
and I pay for Amazon.
Some people might pay for HBO or Macs or whatever,
or Peacock or,
there's so many streaming services.
So now you're paying for all of these things
and just think about that.
Like, so you're actually probably paying more
than you were paying before,
and you have to go, like you said,
the friction of going all these different places,
but I don't know,
I'm still trying to keep a positive mindset.
- Why do you still have cable?
I'm trying to get out of it, to be honest with you,
but there's certain channels that the life likes to watch
and like a lot of streaming services
don't provide those channels.
- What's it?
- Like, lifetime is one of them.
Fubo used to do lifetime,
they actually just got rid of it,
and then it was one other one,
but I've done a lot of research,
and I could save like $700 a year
by switching to a streaming service,
and I just haven't pulled the trigger yet.
- Lifetime, that is a first.
That is a first, I've never heard that.
- I do not watch lifetime.
- Sure.
- If your wife watches it,
you watch it.
We all know that.
We all know that, my friend.
All right, folks,
those are the two headline stories of the week.
Now it's time with an amazing conversation
with Katie Foot, the CMO of Captivate IQ.
She and I work together at Drift for about a year.
She's amazing 13 year sales force veteran.
You do not want to miss this conversation.
I am so excited about it.
Here we go.
Katie Foot, what's going on?
- It's so good to see you, Mark.
Thanks for my move today.
- It has been too long, way too long.
Katie and I, for those who don't know,
spent some really quality time together at Drift.
So Katie, again, great to reconnect with you.
Katie has been a longtime marketing leader.
How many years in a leadership position
has it been for marketing for you?
- 2010 was my first leadership position in marketing.
And I remember it that quickly
because I went out of maternity leave and came back
and started managing the creative copy rating team
when I came back,
which at the time I thought was a pretty cool progressive thing
for a business to say,
you're coming back from Matt Leve,
but we believe in you and we know you can do this.
- Here you go.
Nick will grade my marketing leadership capabilities
and I'll grade yours later on
in this little conversation we have.
Now I'm just kidding.
But no, we got some questions for you.
So folks, we're gonna ask Katie,
four or five questions like we normally do
for this third segment.
And then if you go to Tech Network after the fact,
Katie's gonna share some secrets with you
when it comes to maybe working with CEOs,
working with your marketing team.
She's got a lot of experience.
I reported to Katie when I was at Drift.
It was amazing.
It was very short lived, unfortunately.
I mean, it was, was it not even a year?
- Technically.
- It was maybe just about a year.
I think you left like April of what, 22, is that right?
- That sounds right, yeah.
- Yeah.
- The biggest to your own, Seymour.
- Roll.
- Yes, and I learned a lot there too.
- More love.
- More love.
- Exactly.
So we always ask the question about
how to make something not suck Katie.
So in this case, how do you make marketing leadership
not suck today?
And you can interpret that however you want.
(laughing)
Now, this is a really tough time in B2B marketing leadership.
Just because the market just hasn't done
what we thought it was gonna do.
If I hear one more time, like it's coming back,
it's coming back.
And then it doesn't, like we might all lose our minds here.
So it's not for the faint of heart.
I think you have to keep a sense of humor.
We're not saving lives here.
I think there's also a reason why, you know,
marketing, I think the average marketing tenure
is what 18 months enroll.
And, you know, so I think you have to keep a sense of humor.
You have to, this sounds maybe a little woo-woo,
but I've really just tried to surrender a little bit.
You know, if you try to control everything
and hold on too tight, it almost creates this unnatural behavior.
And so I've really been trying to lean into this idea
of whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen.
How do I show up and be the best version of myself
for my team, for this business,
and have a body of work that I can stand on
regardless of where this whole thing might go?
So there are days that do suck, but I think
if you are, someone told me recently,
if you can find out my calibration
where you are thinking things don't suck
or a generally happy 50% of the time,
it's probably a pretty good gig in today's market.
- Love that answer.
Before Nick, you asked the next question,
it reminds me of that Disney song, like let it go.
- Oh yeah, Elsa.
Elsa Nana.
- Yes.
- She would wear a trailblazer that Elsa.
- Yeah, I mean, I just think that's spot on.
I mean, you wanna like try to influence
as much as you can.
I definitely think through doing one like CMO stance
and being two VPs of marketing, like looking
and working with some incredible CMOs.
- Oh, how?
- The more that you can understand when to push
versus when not to push.
- Yeah.
- That's pretty important skill.
- Which battle you wanna fight?
And you know, sitting in marketing,
you're at an intersection of so many different things,
unlike most parts of the business.
And so you often tend to be what we describe
like the shit umbrella for a lot of stuff
that might be come in down the pipe.
I think if you can be a good shit umbrella for your team
and protect your team from a lot of that thrash,
that also helps marketing not suck for them either.
So I'm always very cognizant of that potential thrash
that the typical marketer can get thrown in to on a day-to-day basis
and try to protect that as much as possible.
- Everyone's a marketer, right Nick?
- That's a funny term.
I'm gonna start using it, but like,
I mean, I've been grateful for CMOs that I have worked for
and I worked for Mark at our last company together.
And I've worked for some that have done really good
from a servant perspective.
And then I've done somewhere they've just let
the shit keep on rolling.
So yeah, I'm not love that.
I think it's really good.
So I think that kind of goes into our next question.
So, you know, what's the biggest mistake made
by marketing leaders as we kind of exit 2024
and start to think about 2025 that they should avoid
for 2025 that in your experience,
do you think might set them up for success?
- I think about it.
If you like zoom way out and think about
the trajectory of marketing,
it's only been in the past 20 years or so
that marketers have actually had a seat at the executive table.
And they've been able to get a seat at the executive table
because they've talked a lot about the impact they're making
on the overall revenue of an organization.
So talking more numbers, data, attribution,
which in and of itself can be an enigma.
I think the challenge there is that the pendulum
has almost swung too far in the direction
of prove the ROI of every single thing that you do.
I'm sure the three of us could agree.
What I love about marketing is those magical components,
those white glove experiences, the emotion that you can elicit
from someone if you take them on an effective journey
through content or through events, whatever it might be.
And those things can often be hard to track.
And so we had this pendulum back in the madmen era
and advertising where it was all about storytelling
and visuals and art.
And I think over the course of the past 20 years,
the pendulum has swung so far to the science.
Show me every single dollar that you're spending.
And what's the ROI I'm going to get on that?
And let me benchmark you against X, Y, and Z company.
I think the mistake we need to avoid going into the back half
of this year and into 2025 is finding the right balance
between the two.
This market is so inundated with people call calling
and AI-driven content.
And how are we connecting with human beings?
Even if we're selling security software
or something incredibly technical,
we're still selling to people.
We're still marketing to people.
And so I think the marketers who can find a way
to storytelling effectively and to differentiate
with that storytelling and with some uniqueness
around the essence of their brand
will also see a return.
You just might not be able to prove it.
And so finding that balance between the art
and the science of marketing, I think,
is a really important thing to think about for next year.
I like that a lot.
I actually just--
I have a newsletter called the People First Go to Market newsletter.
And I recently actually wrote about this.
How marketing's both a blend of art and science
and kind of broke down from a lot of different third-party
research reports that I've read in just talking
to marketing leaders, like what that actually looks like.
So it's interesting and actually really nice
and refreshing to hear you also say that.
So definitely, definitely on board with it.
I mean, if you think about your own purchase decisions
at the end of the day, if a product seems
to be about the same as another product,
it costs about the same.
But you had a really great interaction with company A
and company B was maybe just so-so.
I don't know.
You're probably going to skew towards company A.
So I think it can be a difference maker, for sure.
Return on investigation.
I like that.
Well, we just want the new marketing campaign
that's called Return on Incentives,
because obviously I help market commission software
and incentives.
And so it's funny you return on investigation.
I like that.
And the reason I bring that up is I feel like a CEO,
which is going to get to our next question about CEOs.
If they ask themselves, how much return am I getting
by having the marketing leader or other people in their team
investigate this attribution fallacy, right?
Or investigate what isn't is working.
Or investigate like improved to me like you're worth.
And just instead, like, hey, go create
to your point Katie stories, content, experiences.
Like, oh my god, you probably can get a lot more done
and get more ROI, the real ROI at the end of the day.
- And don't get me wrong for all of the CFOs
who might be listening out there, my friends and finance.
There are things that we need to be able to justify
at Return on.
I'm still a big believer in what's your ultimate target
and how does that waterfall all the way up
to MQLs and leads?
But I do think working as a part of it,
the culture within an executive team and an organization
is you have to kind of believe in marketing.
And you have to believe that there's some level of investment
that's needed.
There is, there are just some things
that you can't ever prove the direct impact on
and be okay with an element of that.
I think that's what we're,
you know, modern CMOs are really hoping for.
- So let me just double click on that really quick.
What is one of the ways you would recommend people do that
with their finance partners and other business partners?
Like some of the ways they can do that in education.
- Yeah, well, my finance partner sits on
an every single one of my directs meetings.
So they just have a seat at the table.
His name is Arcade, he's amazing.
And that way he understands like,
I run some credibility with him
because he's able to see how I run my business.
So I'm not the stereotypical marketer
that's just looking to send money on fire.
Every one of my directs calls starts with a health of business.
Like where are we, how many leads?
MQL, how are we facing the operating plan?
Where are we with meetings and pipeline?
So we're starting and leading by example of,
hey, we've got a business to run here.
So that creates some trust like, okay,
Katie's actually trying to be business minded in her approach.
And then we talk about other big bets
that we might want to be making.
And so just having that two-way communication,
Arcade has a seat is really important.
I also am very transparent with my ELT peers.
So we obviously meet at least once a week.
And we have an okay, our framework,
so objectives and key results.
And I'm very clear on,
I have an enviable culture, okay,
I have a full funnel to me under care.
But then I have a brand okay, our,
and a lot of the key results associated with that
don't necessarily yield, you know, one-to-one return.
So I think just ongoing communication and being transparent.
Mark, when you and I worked together,
I always did the Friday five to the company.
I think marketing just has to over communicate.
This is what we're doing.
This is what we say we were gonna do.
These are the results we saw.
Here's what we learned.
You just gotta bring people along on that journey
because it is such a nuanced, complex,
yet misunderstood discipline within an organization.
- See Nick, it's why we do weekly pacing.
(laughs)
- It's true, it's the way it's worked out for us, I would say.
- There you go.
- Two person company, we're trying to do our best
to emulate like a more sophisticated organization
'cause it's important,
'cause then you can both learn and celebrate.
- Well, I actually think it's two person company
it's sometimes easier, right?
'Cause you can, like it is what it is
and you get to the simplicity as you scale and grow
as more people are involved, that's when it gets harder.
And you can, you know, coming from Salesforce,
man, trying to do a business or a review at Salesforce
and like peeling back the onion,
it's just almost impossible.
- Well, let's talk about that.
Maybe we can talk about Benioff or, you know, no, no,
we don't have the name names, but what's a common misconception
that CEOs have about their marketing leader?
You can name more than one, two, K.
You can go, you can do as many as you want.
- Okay, common misconceptions.
Well, I think the stereotype that I mentioned earlier,
oh, the marketer just wants to do pretty things
and build power points and spend a bunch of money.
I've actually not found that to be the case
in my CMO networks, marketers bear a tremendous amount
of responsibility.
They're off in the tip of the spear to drive demand
and to tell a story into the market.
They take it all in their back
and they're also the easiest, you know,
they're the first to be cut when times are tough
and riffs come along.
I mean, you come from the content world, Mark.
How many times, how many of your peers
and fellow content folks have been impacted
by that reality in the past three years?
- Tough times.
- Yeah, tough times.
And I think that's actually a representative
of just the misunderstanding that the C-suite often has
when it relates to marketing.
Their cost center, we could do it without them.
Anybody can do this, AI can do this.
So I think there's a lack of understanding
just about the discipline in general.
I also think what's really interesting about marketing
and I'm in a very unique situation,
my current position because our CEO is actually
a finance guy.
So he started the company because he's having
to calculate commissions and it was a complete nightmare.
And so that's interesting,
but he also had to step in and lead marketing.
They had about a year long search
until I came into the position.
And so he has a lot more empathy for, oh wow.
This is like really broad and really deep and really hard
in a way that a lot of CEOs don't necessarily have,
which I really appreciate.
So, you know, I think my, I worked with a lot at most of the
the bosses that I've had have not had that experience
and that perspective, the way that I've navigated that
has been again over communication.
You've got to just like bring, hey, so and so,
remember I told you we were going to do this thing.
We're doing this thing and just like reminding them
over and over and over again, what they asked you to do
or give them choices.
You asked me to do project A, you've now added project B and C.
We can't do all three at once.
Here are a couple options.
And just like continuing to over communicate
and make sure that you're always aligned
because it's very easy to get misaligned in sideways
as the marketing leader with your boss or your ELT.
And by the way, your ELT peers, all of their objectives
and goals are likely going to be different
and sometimes even at odds is what you're trying
to do in marketing.
And so you've got to make sure you are in lock step
with your manager, your boss.
And then as you bring your she along on that journey,
they're giving you air cover to your peers to be like,
no, no, no, this is where I want Katie focus.
This is what success looks like.
This is what success looks like in terms of marketing
because everyone has a different opinion on that.
Are we trying to build demand?
Are we trying to build our brand?
Are we there different tactics?
You know this.
Marketing is a Swiss Army knife.
I can go down any path you want me to go down.
But we need to agree what is the most important thing
because if we get distracted by squirrel, squirrel, squirrel,
we're never going to get to where we're trying to go.
I love that.
And I mean, so it's similar to what Nick and I do
with our business, our boss is our customers.
And we have preached since day one, and Nick is,
he's like, Mark, just shut up because I say this so much.
You need to be the one driving the communication.
You need to be pushing and pulling the customers with you
because they look to us, many of our customers look to us
as kind of that de facto person in charge, right?
Like, hey, you need to have a point of view.
You need to be driving this or like, why are we paying you again?
And I do think just like aside from an agency,
standpoint, and maybe a quick conversation on this,
Katie, because you've hired a lot of agencies,
love to know like your perspective on that.
But like our motto is overcommunicate.
Yes, communication is key, especially in this remote
first world.
We do not have all those little touch points in the kitchen
anymore that we all had early in our career.
So when people get sideways at work right now,
it seems so obvious.
And it's probably annoying to say it out loud.
But you guys, we have to overcommunicate.
We have to bring people along in the journey.
Otherwise, there's just, there's no little micromilments
of human interaction day to day that's going to save us.
So I've worked with phenomenal agencies in the past.
But I found it really hard to, man, so much of brand
and the work that a marketer is doing
is so unique to that specific company.
And you almost have to be an extension of that team
and really embedded with them.
So if you're going to work with an agency,
they need to have the level of commitment
to sit on your staff calls to be an extension of your team.
They can't feel like somebody I just,
they're only easy buttons here.
Like you can't just outsource work.
In a marketing organization, you need relief valves for sure.
Like you always have to have contractors on speed dial,
agencies on speed dial.
But you have to make sure that they're willing to go deep
with you and understand your business.
I think that's why people will develop a rule of X
of agencies over time too.
Like there's a couple preferred ones that you always go to
because they know you, they know you're working style
and you guys can get to brass tax pretty quickly.
It's a nice little plug.
Thank you, Katie.
It's good.
We'll turn that into an ad.
We can do that on purpose either.
That was all organic.
That's awesome.
Let's ask Katie the last question, Nick.
And then one of the things that went on
packed during the exclusive content for tech network
subscribers, Katie, is your Friday five
among other things you do.
But that was a great thing you did at Drift.
But I go ahead, Nick.
Yes.
So last question.
So as you know, or as you may know,
we're all about people first, everything that goes with it.
So how can marketing leaders take a people first
approach to their leadership style?
This is just so cool to who I am.
I don't know if you are familiar with the NEagram.
I'm an NEagram too, which is like connection, helping,
caring about people first.
That's just like the ui-gui goodness of life
for NEagram too.
So, but I work with a lot of other folks
that are not oriented that way.
And so sometimes I'll come at this problem
from such a people position and they have no idea
what I'm talking about.
So I know it's not inherent for everyone.
So I do think marketing tends to bring in the people
who love to connect because that's essentially
the spirit of marketing is we're getting attention.
We're connecting to people through a process.
Look, if you are a marketing leader,
how are you going to get work done
if you can't inspire and motivate people?
Because you can't actually do all the work yourself.
It's like whack a mole if you try to.
So even if you're not oriented to being people first
or feelings first, it's just a business strategy.
You have to work and flex that muscle.
Otherwise, you will never get anything done.
People will leave and go elsewhere.
People do not leave jobs or salaries.
They leave other managers.
And so I'm going to unpack, I'll give you a little teaser.
I'll unpack my three piece framework here
in a little bit, people pipeline process.
And it always starts with people.
- Personally, love left managers in the past.
- Yeah. - Specifically for that reason.
So I'm excited.
I'm sure Mark might know a bit more about the framework
than I do, but I'm excited to unpack it.
Mark, what do you think?
Do we hop over?
Go to the exclusive piece?
- The three piece, yes.
And definitely check out Katie foot on LinkedIn.
Katie's awesome.
And she's at this great company, Captivate IQ.
We talked about that at the beginning of this whole segment
and whatnot, but she's doing some incredible things.
She was at drift and you were Salesforce for a long time.
- Team Gluers, I was at the target
for those of you remember email marketing back in its heyday.
It was kind of like what drift became for chat.
We were email marketing.
We went public.
We were required by Salesforce, spent 13 years there
and then took the leap over to drift.
And now I'm at Captivate.
It's been a wild ride.
- Love it.
Love it.
Let's get to the deep stuff.
So yeah, check that out, tacknetwork.com.
Thanks Katie.
- Thank you.
- Thanks for joining us on this episode of GTM News Desk,
presented by the tack network.
To hear our full conversation with our guests today,
head to the link in the show notes
to subscribe to the tack network.
Until next time, I'm Mark Killens
and I'm Nick Bennett.
Keep it people fairest everybody.