Join ClubPF
Mark Kilens 46 min

Rethinking the Lead to Opportunity Experience to Generate Better Pipeline


Discover innovative strategies to enhance your lead to opportunity process, improving your sales pipeline and driving revenue. Learn actionable tips for a seamless B2B buying experience.



0:00

Hello everyone. Hope you're doing well today. You're listening on demand.

0:05

Welcome to another club

0:07

PF webinar. We have such a special guest today. I'm so honored that she said

0:13

yes to this. She'll

0:15

do a better intro than what I could do in a moment, but I'm so happy to welcome

0:20

Natalie from Nevada.

0:21

I'm sure you've seen her on the socials. Natalie, how you doing?

0:26

I'm doing well. Thank you so much. Of course, going to say yes for you and Nick

0:31

. Love

0:32

love, tack. Everything you guys do. And yeah, if you're not familiar with me, I

0:36

'm laughing when

0:37

you said the socials because it's really only LinkedIn. Like I don't post on my

0:40

own Instagram.

0:41

But yeah, I had a good at a company called Nevada. We do interactive product

0:45

demos,

0:46

but a lot of what I do at Nevada is not just talking with SaaS companies that

0:51

are customers

0:52

or our audience about how they're trying to improve the buyer experience, but

0:56

also think about our

0:57

own B2B buyer experience as head of growth. I'm thinking more than just

1:00

marketing, but the whole

1:02

funnel. So really a lot of my day today is either thinking about for internally

1:07

, how can we improve

1:07

our buyer experience or our customers come to us and say, "I want to improve

1:11

our B2B buying

1:11

experience." So just something on my mind. And I absolutely love talking about

1:15

you do fall in the

1:16

socials. You probably heard me talk about it a little bit too often. Yeah, well

1:20

, I mean,

1:21

you were actually just talking about in a private channel Reddit, which maybe

1:26

we'll even get into

1:27

into today, but Reddit from a B2B standpoint, there's definitely things

1:31

happening and some

1:32

chatter happening regarding Reddit because LinkedIn is getting crowded. Yeah.

1:38

Well, what I started

1:40

noticing Reddit was because Google is starting to show Reddit threads. Like

1:44

more often it's coming

1:46

up in SEO. So that's when I started more caught my attention. It's interesting

1:50

because it's a very

1:51

unpromotional channel. So you have to think about like, I mean, we think about

1:54

this in LinkedIn too,

1:55

right? And I think that's a lot of also creating a better buying experience. It

1:58

's how do you promote

1:59

yourself in a way that is helpful, especially someone has a question around it,

2:03

but not

2:04

clearly promotional and silly. And I think Reddit really crosses that line. It

2:07

's like not a very

2:08

promotional channel. The users do not like, like if you are overly promotional,

2:13

you'll just get like

2:14

downvoted to the bottom. Strow, you gotta be very careful. We actually have a

2:17

good amount of

2:18

customers in the B2B space that our customers have attacked that are seeing

2:22

engagement on Reddit.

2:23

So that's a whole other bright webinar. But today we're talking about how to

2:28

rethink the lead

2:30

to opportunity experience. This is a very important process as it relates to

2:36

turning interest into

2:38

revenue. And Natalie, Natalie and I have a lot of opinions on this. She knows

2:43

it probably even

2:44

better than I do in terms of like how to optimize this process. The thing we're

2:48

going to talk about

2:49

today though is how to really shift that process, which has been traditionally

2:54

built from a company

2:55

first mindset. Someone is going to go to a landing page, fill out a form. We're

2:59

going to

2:59

nurture them. We're going to do this. We're going to do that. They're going to

3:02

fill out another form,

3:03

do this. They're going to then say, I want a demo, then they're going to go to

3:06

an SDR BDR,

3:07

get qualified, go to an AE, get qualified, become an opportunity stage S one.

3:12

Oh my god, here we go.

3:14

That's painful. Just from here in that. Painful, right? And painful. And I know

3:19

we have some people

3:21

joining us. Jocelyn, Caneko, Motib, Sam, hello. If you have questions, let us

3:26

know. Just throw

3:27

them out into the chat. We'll take questions throughout the entire thing. But

3:32

we are going to

3:33

really unpack this. And the gist of it, Natalie, is how do we have sales be a

3:40

little more like

3:41

marketing, marketing be a little more more like sales and how to match the way

3:45

in which you

3:46

think about the leads opportunity experience to the way that people, the buyers

3:52

would want to

3:52

experience it themselves. Yeah, I think to your point of how do we make them

3:56

more like each other?

3:57

We're talking about this a little before the webinar too. Like, how do you just

4:00

make it a better

4:00

handoff? Like so often be to be buying. I feel like you get maybe you get some

4:04

information from

4:05

the website. Maybe you do all your own research. Maybe you get like fill out

4:09

some lead forms to

4:10

show interest. And then usually a lot of things are gated. And then finally get

4:14

to sales and

4:14

feel to get to start that process all over again. I know nothing about you. You

4:17

have to start from

4:18

ground one of discovery. You won't see the product until like probably like

4:22

three demos in, three

4:23

conversations in. So really it's more, to your point, maybe pushing marketing a

4:27

little bit where

4:28

they are further qualifying the prospect before handing it off. And then maybe

4:32

bringing sales

4:33

forward a little bit where it's not, you know, maybe they don't have to go

4:36

through three discovery

4:37

calls before seeing the product. Some happy medium. Also want to preface to

4:41

your point, Mark. Like,

4:42

there are stages and different things you can do. This isn't going to be a talk

4:45

when we just tell

4:46

you you're doing everything wrong. And then you have to do it one specific way.

4:49

This is all suggestions

4:50

and best practices we've seen, but we're also going to at the end show like,

4:54

okay, if you can't,

4:55

you know, show your product right up front for the website, maybe here are some

4:59

baby steps you

4:59

can do before that. But no meant to like understand also, it's very easy to say

5:04

let's be 100% buyer first,

5:05

but then obviously your CEO also wants you to be thinking about the company as

5:09

well.

5:09

100%. So we're going to talk about the empowered buyer to empowered by

5:15

experience, empowered buyer

5:16

and part by experience. Like everything you just talked about, I think Natalie

5:19

wraps up maybe into

5:20

that theme. So let's pull up the slides. I know you're going to drive the

5:23

slides. We have some

5:24

visuals. We don't have a ton of slides, right? This is more of a conversation,

5:28

but Natalie did

5:29

put together some interesting data points, some interesting approaches. She has

5:33

these three things

5:34

we can do to kind of almost like fix this, you know, tomorrow if you wanted to

5:38

act quickly.

5:39

The first slide though, as she pulls that up is going to be just a quick shout

5:43

out for a

5:44

webinar in a couple of weeks that builds off of this. So I'm just going to drop

5:47

the link into the

5:48

chat in case you folks want to register if you have not already. This is with

5:52

our friends over at

5:53

Turbiness with Jenna. I just talked to Jenna today about this. It's about the

5:59

sales process,

6:01

account-based marketing kind of approach. It's going to really be nice

6:05

complimentary to this.

6:06

That's why I bring it up. That's why we planned it like that. So the link's in

6:09

the chat. Moving on

6:10

to the first slide, Natalie, let's get right into the content. Let's dive in re

6:14

thinking this experience,

6:16

the head of growth. You're obsessed about making it as easy as it is. It could

6:21

be to buy something

6:22

today. Before you even get in the next slide, can you just share what's your

6:27

kind of mission

6:28

vision at Nevada? Like outside the product, what are you guys trying to do? I

6:31

think it's related to

6:33

this topic. Yeah, it's really all around. We're talking about using this phrase

6:37

like "buyer first."

6:38

But how do we, again, slowly inch people towards creating a buying experience

6:42

as a buyer that's

6:43

focused around what they need and what they want versus the way it's

6:46

traditionally done in B2B sales

6:48

that's all company-focused. So basically, the very simplest way of saying it is

6:52

just like,

6:52

how do we make B2B buying not suck? How do we make it enjoyable and delightful

6:56

for the prospect

6:57

and easy versus this weird tug of war that it feels like right now? Love it.

7:04

Let's go into it then.

7:05

Okay, and as I mentioned, definitely pretty obsessed about this topic and not

7:09

just because of our

7:09

customers or who we talk to, but also because I just finished collecting all

7:13

the data for our

7:14

second year report. So you're all going to get early access to this data. But

7:19

basically,

7:20

two years in a row, we run a report with ChileFiber looking at the top 100 B2B

7:23

SaaS companies,

7:25

top 100 determined by company sites, looking at their websites, fucking a demo

7:29

with them,

7:29

and really just trying to evaluate, like, of the gold star SaaS companies,

7:33

are they following these buyer first best practices that we hear about from,

7:37

again,

7:37

customers, other buyers, and SaaS. So first, I'm going to start with the

7:41

negative and then

7:42

we're going to get positive. But I think we can all relate to this if you've

7:45

bought software before,

7:47

if you've been through this buying experience, there seems to be like a trust

7:50

issue. Like,

7:50

I feel like I listened to so many sales calls and prospects are defensive up

7:54

front because we've

7:55

been burned. And some of the ways we've been burned, demo requests can be

7:59

straight up ignored,

8:00

which is kind of wild to me. We reached out to 100 companies and 20% of them

8:05

just never responded

8:06

back via email. I will preface this was via email. It's possible they called us

8:10

, but who picks up

8:11

their phone? I never do. If I don't know the number, absolutely no email

8:15

response back after

8:16

requesting a demo, but just a while considering the concept of automation. Book

8:21

of demo, it's

8:23

a funny CTA because it's almost never a demo. 91% of the times that we pushed

8:27

the book of demo button,

8:29

we were prompted the first call to be a discovery call, which we can talk about

8:34

discovery later.

8:34

I know there's varying opinions, but it's just a funny concept that we were all

8:38

advertising this

8:39

book of demo, but what reality you're booking a discovery call, it's not a demo

8:43

. And then I feel

8:44

like a very divisive one, but one that's talked about a lot is pricing is often

8:48

hidden. I was.

8:49

I thought it was actually pretty optimistic that over half of the top 100 SaaS

8:53

companies did have

8:54

public pricing and pretty available, like top nav bar, very much showing off

8:58

their pricing pages

9:00

of 54%, but of the there were still a cohort of customers that have like

9:05

pricing pages that

9:06

didn't actually have pricing on it, which I know sometimes that can be a step

9:10

to getting public

9:11

facing pricing. So sometimes you got to convince the boss first, like, hey, let

9:14

's just make a

9:15

pricing page. Then once there's more comfort, you can show pricing. But just as

9:19

interesting,

9:19

there are still a good cohort of people that have pricing pages, but don't

9:22

actually fully

9:23

show the pricing. And just to add to this, the other thing that we saw a ton

9:26

when I was at Drift

9:27

is it's just also still a very slow process. So great, you request a demo, aka

9:31

discovery call,

9:32

interrogation call, it could take you maybe on a good day the next day to get

9:37

that. Could be a

9:38

few days could be a week being be longer than that. I mean, that is just bad.

9:43

It's just crazy how long it takes to your point. And then the fact that I just

9:49

thought it was so

9:50

interesting that it's just the universal lie that we all buy into of like, oh,

9:53

you're going to get

9:54

a demo, but it's like, no, it's not actually a demo. I will say some optimism

9:58

on the time.

10:00

Last year when we ran the support on average, it took companies two days to

10:04

respond to us.

10:05

This year it actually was on average same business day. A lot of that was

10:09

automation,

10:10

a lot more automation this year than last year. But it's so simple. Like a lot

10:14

of companies,

10:14

and I'll show example of this shortly, even I sent you an email that said,

10:17

thank you for

10:18

booking a demo. We'll get back to you shortly. Here are some resources in the

10:21

meantime.

10:21

But last year, there wasn't as many companies doing that. So I think people are

10:26

catching on

10:26

on the speed to lead. Interesting. And then it's also like, you know, why don't

10:32

so a couple of things here. You know, why don't companies for the most part

10:35

just use a meeting

10:36

calendar link? So there's, I mean, there's a few different ways you could, you

10:38

could

10:39

orchestrate that, right? You could still have the form and then show the

10:41

meeting calendar.

10:42

You don't have to have the form and just show the meeting calendar, right?

10:45

There's a couple

10:46

of other variations of that. I've also seen it where, you know, you could try

10:51

the group demos,

10:52

right? So it doesn't feel as much of interrogation. It's like, hey, every week

10:55

come to this live,

10:56

you know, in some people called a seminar, instead of a webinar, right? Like

10:59

whatever.

11:01

But I still think like what people expect when they buy anything, right? Like,

11:06

for example, you

11:07

go to the car dealership. Some people don't even go to car dealerships anymore.

11:11

You can buy cars

11:12

online, but you go to a car dealership, I want to test drive a car. You pretty

11:16

much always can

11:17

test drive the car, like right then and there. Like you're not going to like

11:19

just wait and not

11:20

going to interrogate you unless you're going to maybe like Ferrari dealership

11:23

and like, are you

11:24

sure you have enough money to buy this car? But you know what I mean, Natalie?

11:27

It's just, it's

11:28

still, it's still a lot of work to do in B2B. I just always find it interesting

11:33

too. There are a

11:34

lot of solutions out there and I know they're not perfect, but clear bit all

11:37

those that can

11:38

enrich up front. So it's interesting how much there's still manual

11:42

qualification. And I understand

11:43

there are some things that Clearbit's not going to have. Like for example, at

11:47

my past company,

11:47

we sold outside sales reps, it was really important to know the number of sales

11:51

reps they had.

11:52

Clearbit's not going to know that, but there's still probably a basic level of

11:55

qualification

11:56

that Clearbit can do. So you can at least ask like a few less questions. Like

12:00

one thing I actually

12:01

really respected when doing this research was we had companies who emailed us

12:06

back and said like,

12:08

hey, I don't think you're a good fit. And you know, we were booking demos with

12:12

the top 100

12:13

sales companies, not all of them made sense. And also, we used a chili fiber

12:16

alias. So it's not

12:18

like we used a random Gmail or something. It was a real, I mean, an alias, but

12:23

a real company

12:24

that's sizable and well known and be to be sass. And so some companies emailed

12:29

us back and just

12:30

politely said like, hey, where this software and looking at your website, I don

12:35

't know if it makes

12:35

as much sense for you. Like do you have any questions or things we can answer?

12:39

And I really

12:40

respected that. I just feel like there's a certain level of qualification that

12:43

can be automated

12:44

that you can just at least get them to the yes, no bucket. And then maybe ask

12:47

for their

12:48

qualification. So it doesn't just feel like you're, I don't know, there's

12:50

somebody called you get on

12:52

with wraps and you're like, you could Google have this information.

12:54

Yep. I think AI will definitely change this paradigm more and more when you

12:58

have

12:59

almost an agent who's going to help the buyer get to this point. Like, I think

13:04

the future is

13:05

going to be these things of agents. And I know we're going to get off topic

13:08

potentially a little

13:08

bit here. But, you know, we're not saying replace sales sales will never be

13:14

replaced,

13:14

at least hopefully in our lifetime. I mean, I, it's still human to human at the

13:19

end of the day,

13:19

right? A human's going to have to hopefully do business with another human in

13:23

some capacity.

13:24

I think I could be wrong. I mean, there could be days where you're buying

13:28

something for $100,000

13:30

and you don't talk to a human. It seems a bit far off at that point. And the

13:34

reason for that is

13:35

for most larger scale B2B solutions, Natalie, there is a change management

13:41

process and exercise

13:42

that has to take place for that solution to truly be set up for success and for

13:49

value creation to

13:50

happen. I don't think that can fully ever be automated, at least in my lifetime

13:54

. That's

13:56

one I'm throwing out that out there. No, I think the goal of all this is

14:00

automate the parts that

14:01

feel on human. Like a BDR asking you 10 questions in a row, again, for things

14:07

that you've good Google

14:09

doesn't feel like a good human interaction. It feels very transactional. So to

14:13

your point,

14:14

none of this is arguing to get rid of a sales call or sales. What's arguing is

14:18

get rid of the

14:18

parts that feel icky. That's what describe it. And so that first sales call can

14:23

be more enjoyable

14:24

on both ends. Exactly. Exactly. All right. So we know that we have trust issues

14:32

issues with us.

14:35

For a trust issues with them to some degree. What comes next though? What else

14:39

is there anything else

14:40

you want to unpack when it comes to the survey, the data that you found, or do

14:44

you kind of want to

14:44

jump into some examples? Yeah, I think let's jump into the examples. Like this

14:49

is the issue. How do

14:50

we make it better? So touched on this already about the calendar schedulers.

14:55

What was very

14:55

interesting was this round of the report, we found a majority of the company

14:59

using calendar

15:00

schedulers used it in their follow up emails. So even if they weren't using it

15:04

necessarily on the website,

15:06

you could still use it in the email cadence. So if you're not comfortable

15:11

letting anyone book

15:12

directly with your sales reps or AEs, that's fine. But what I thought was the

15:16

most successful

15:17

cadences was again, first you get an automated email right away just telling

15:21

you, hey, we saw

15:22

you booked a demo, someone's going to reach out to you. It just kind of gives

15:26

that reassurance if I

15:27

wasn't forgotten. This high touch one, I think it's a really nice example of it

15:31

. But I also love

15:32

it as they provide additional resources. This is a crowd strike one that also

15:37

does that. I love

15:39

also the three options giving prospects options of what they could want to read

15:43

more about. But it's

15:44

just a nice way to say like, hey, even if we have to do some qualification on

15:47

the back end,

15:48

obviously they're not saying that, but we all know that's what's happening. You

15:51

're not being

15:52

forgotten. Here are some resources in the meantime, and we'll email with you

15:55

more information.

15:56

So that's like my biggest tip, and I think something pretty, I don't know why

16:00

too many

16:01

companies would have checked to that, because it's also just like making sure

16:04

they don't forget you.

16:05

And then a lot of companies, as I mentioned, would then follow up with an SDR

16:10

or AE, and include

16:11

the calendar scheduler saying, hey, you know, I'm your point of contact. Nice

16:15

to meet you. If you

16:15

want to book time or have any questions, here you go. Yeah, it's interesting. I

16:19

have a question

16:20

about this is really to the demo side now. What's your take? Maybe you have

16:25

some data to

16:27

to kind of reference in regards to this question, that take on someone books a

16:31

demo,

16:32

and then you show them an interactive demo after they book the demo before they

16:38

get to the demo

16:38

that's run by a human with the discovery call at the end of the day. Yeah, so I

16:44

have you kind of

16:45

thinking ahead of like some of my tips of how to get a little more buyer first.

16:49

Okay, okay.

16:50

And customers will almost like pre qualify with the interactive demo, send it

16:54

some beforehand.

16:55

We didn't see as much in this cadence. Like oftentimes in this cadence, people

16:59

were pushing

17:00

towards just booking the demo itself, which kind of makes sense. I could see

17:04

some sales teams are

17:05

hesitant about like not giving them anything else to distract them. But what I

17:10

see even more

17:10

often than like pre qualifying with an interactive demo is an outbound

17:14

campaigns, including

17:16

intramar demos. And then especially as like a last stitch email, right? If you

17:20

're outbounding

17:20

someone and they're not responding, just like a last stitch like, hey, if you

17:24

're not interested,

17:24

no worries. If you want to check out a demo on your own, here you go. I think

17:28

that's a really

17:29

effective tactic because it's not, you know, I understand outbound emails you

17:32

want to have as

17:33

little links as possible, very short, catchy, all that. But if they haven't

17:37

expressed any interest

17:38

so far, why not let them explore on their own? And then if it sparks interest,

17:42

then that's one

17:44

a signal that they are interested if they go through it. And then you can see

17:47

what parts of the demo

17:48

when they went through and then further outbound with for more like detailed

17:53

messaging based off

17:54

of the features and use cases they explored. Love it. Makes total sense. So

17:59

that, but this is

17:59

specifically what we're looking at now is like how you guys experience it, how

18:03

you folks saw it

18:04

when you were doing the research for the second year report. Yeah, so this was

18:08

second year before

18:09

these are actual screenshots of emails I got. Follow our fake brand in alias,

18:15

but then that

18:16

I was looking at the fake alias. Basically, when we requested a demo, these are

18:20

the type of emails

18:21

we got. We saw about 40% did use automation and then about 30% had a calendar

18:25

schedule in there.

18:26

And that would be my tip, right? If you're not comfortable with, you know,

18:30

putting a calendar

18:30

schedule on the website or qualified beforehand, just add a little automation

18:34

in the demo,

18:35

follow up process. So again, it doesn't feel forgotten because I know sometimes

18:39

I book a demo

18:40

and I'm like, okay, I hope I'm going to get a response. Like it just, you get a

18:43

little nervous

18:44

when you don't hear anything. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love it. All right. So

18:48

what's the next one you

18:49

got? Oh, okay. We just kind of touched on this a little bit about qualification

18:52

before the demo.

18:54

I think there are a few ways you could do this. So to your question before

18:58

people ever send demos

18:59

pre-demo, sometimes or interactive demo is pre-live demo, glad I buy it.

19:01

Sometimes the more common

19:05

thing is they'll put a really high level interactive demo on their website. It

19:09

was cool to see and

19:10

obviously I'm biased here, but it was really exciting for me to see was last

19:14

year we saw about

19:14

17% of these websites had an interactive demo. This year was about 31%. So I'm

19:20

just double the

19:20

amount of these companies that included an interactive demo on some part of

19:24

their website.

19:25

Some of the most common places was like product pages. Makes sense. These are

19:29

large companies,

19:30

maybe a specific department wanted to experiment with it. Demo centers. So if

19:34

you could have multiple

19:35

demos, this really ties into the idea of qualified before too, because then you

19:40

can use that data

19:41

from that demo center. Or for example, here we use like basically choose your

19:45

own adventure style.

19:47

Then you can see what a prospect's interested in before they jump onto the live

19:50

demo. So if you

19:51

have multiple demo options, so for example, if I'm a prospect of Nevada and I

19:56

go through sales,

19:57

then I can know as a buyer, okay, this person went through my entire

20:01

interactive demo, so there's

20:03

clearly some interest and there are sales persona, like that's the use case

20:06

with what they care

20:06

about more. That's like a way that we've seen customers by putting these

20:10

interactive demos,

20:11

not just letting the customers qualify a little more, but also get the data of,

20:16

okay, this is what this customer is interested in. The use case they're

20:19

interested in.

20:21

So the question here is that someone becomes a lead, right? And that could

20:25

either be like they

20:26

subscribe to a newsletter, they download a piece of content, something pretty

20:31

top of funnel,

20:32

right? Like for the most most people, and I love to know what people think who

20:35

are listening live,

20:36

when does someone become a lead in your funnel? It's usually email address

20:41

capture, right Natalie?

20:42

Yes, not not or for us, it's like the only lead magnet we have on our website

20:48

is literally booking

20:49

a live demo. Oh, interesting, interesting. I mean, that's us, but yes,

20:53

typically most people

20:54

at some form of capturing the email. Capture email, like I, the way we think

20:59

about it from a people

20:59

first go to market model standpoint is you have a subscriber and you so

21:03

subscribe to something

21:05

from us, you know, that could be all the content we produce, a weekly

21:08

newsletter, a combination of

21:09

things, but you become a subscriber. For some, you become a member of something

21:14

, right? Like,

21:14

hey, I'm going to become a member of an owned community. And then within that,

21:19

right, you definitely

21:20

would have something that says, Hey, I want a demo of your product or I want to

21:24

like check out

21:25

more about your product. It could be, it could be more of a freemium PLG motion

21:28

. It could be with

21:29

interactive demo could be interactive demo plus demo requests, like whatever

21:32

that is, right?

21:33

And that ultimately gets them to become a customer and opportunity. So the

21:37

reason I bring this up is

21:40

say most people have this idea of like lead subscriber. When, when do you

21:46

recommend,

21:47

when do you see people like introducing a non human demo experience to someone

21:53

who's who's

21:54

now a lead? Like, what are the signals now that you use or you would suggest

21:58

people look at to use

21:59

to introduce kind of like this qualification before the actual demo?

22:02

So it's funny because I almost think of it as the interactive demo is that one

22:09

of the first

22:09

things that can tell you additional signals. So most of our customers use it on

22:13

the website.

22:14

That's a by far biggest use case and oftentimes a secondary CTA. So you might

22:19

have the main CTA of

22:20

free trial or book a demo, then secondary CTA of see the product. So pretty top

22:25

of funnel,

22:26

basically, wherever website visitors would fit into your funnel. And I want to

22:30

preface that

22:31

these should not again replace a live sales call. These should not be an entire

22:35

demo. We recommend

22:37

the average demo be about like eight steps, eight to 12 steps at most. Really

22:41

what it is,

22:42

it's super high level to get someone excited about learning more. And then to

22:47

your point, Mark,

22:48

I think someone who goes through the interactive demo, that's a really good

22:52

high quality signal

22:54

to maybe send a sales to say, Hey, this person just want to run our tire

22:57

interactive demo.

22:58

We should further we should either reach out to them. Or maybe if they feel the

23:02

think they're

23:03

still not qualified, put them in like a more advanced marketing drip campaign,

23:07

maybe start

23:08

retarget them on LinkedIn ads, like we retarget everyone who go through our

23:11

interactive demo on

23:12

LinkedIn. I think that's someone who goes through the interactive demo, that in

23:16

your mind, like that

23:16

is a high quality MQL. How do we either surface that directly to sales or make

23:21

sure they're getting

23:21

some of our more bottom funnel marketing touch points? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

23:26

Yeah, it's a

23:29

this is going to have to be, yeah, have to be something that you talk about

23:33

with your sales

23:34

team as you as you rethink the leads opportunity experience. Like, right, like,

23:38

one of the

23:38

recommendations I would have as people think about this and listen to this now

23:42

is how do you

23:42

create some like guiding principles to then how you rethink a lead to op

23:47

experience, meaning

23:48

are a new set or like our first that of guiding principles includes the

23:52

following. One of the

23:53

things that it could include is we believe that we want to move as much of the

23:57

qualifications we can

23:59

before a buyer talks to someone. So when they actually talk to someone, we can

24:04

have a much more

24:05

customized and consultative type of call with that buyer. Yeah, so I don't know

24:11

, I just think

24:12

the guiding principles piece Natalie is important. Yeah, I was going to say we

24:16

even have some customers

24:17

who they say, okay, if someone wanted the entire interactive demo, like, let's

24:20

just send them straight

24:21

to an A.E. like, lift it up as black notification and let's try to like maybe

24:25

they don't need the

24:26

full discovery process. Maybe because they've shown that much intent and we

24:31

have some data on their

24:32

use case, what features they're interested in, even if like you can also add

24:37

additional, let's say

24:38

identification, third party data on top of it, like, do they fit our ICP or

24:41

they have a certain

24:42

company size, you can all add all that if it hits that, then send it right to

24:46

an A.E. And then that

24:46

first call can be a little more of a blended discovery demo call. So you don't

24:51

have to do like

24:52

three calls until they see the product. Even internally in Nevada, our first

24:56

call is a blended

24:57

disco demo. So customers can always see the product or prospects on that first

25:02

call, because

25:03

we know that a majority of the prospects going into our sales cycle have

25:06

already seen a lot in the

25:08

Nevada course we have interactive demos all over our website. And we heard a

25:12

few other

25:13

customers say that too, it just like speeds up so that time to seeing the

25:16

product, not just

25:17

because they get to see it in the interactive demo, but also because then you

25:20

don't have to do as

25:21

much upfront discovery or learning because the prospect understands what they

25:24

're signing up for.

25:25

Yeah, agreed. I love it. Let's move to the next one. I did talk about this real

25:32

fast.

25:32

Oh, sorry, please, please. No, I want I want other opinions and the people in

25:36

the chat have it.

25:37

So another thing that was pretty common in these email sequences was a

25:43

qualification via email.

25:44

So about 25% of the email sequences, they would ask they would qualify in the

25:50

email. So you'll

25:51

see here, like this is an example where they have like seven or so

25:55

qualification questions. So if

25:56

you didn't want to jump on a call, you could just email back and respond, which

26:01

I like about that

26:02

is again, it gives optionality. Like you can either respond back with the

26:04

questions or book time on

26:06

my calendar. I will say as I wasn't even a real prospect, but getting these

26:10

emails, I was like,

26:11

oh my God, I have a homework assignment now. Like sometimes it was a little

26:15

overwhelming,

26:16

but I like the idea of again, pushing qualification up. If you do it over the

26:20

email,

26:21

you can spend that first call then going a little further. But I wanted to get

26:25

some other thoughts

26:26

on this like qualification via email. Anyone have thoughts? In the chat? Go

26:33

ahead. Or say if anyone's

26:36

doing qualification via email. Yeah, I have not. I don't think I've seen that

26:42

in any of the companies

26:43

I've been part of. I like it. I think it's my opinion here will be the rule of

26:49

three instead of seven.

26:51

And almost there's some email tools. Well, this one is this one is very like,

27:00

you know, again,

27:01

coming from a human line text people first. It's almost like, could you design

27:05

this email

27:05

experience where these questions are a little bit more like binary or you have

27:08

like three options

27:09

and you can just click buttons like yes, like in the email, right? So then like

27:13

, it's really

27:14

that's recording their answer, but it's also not like taking them away from the

27:18

email, like just

27:18

keeping it really simple almost like a short poll in the email, you know? Yeah,

27:24

that'd be

27:24

interesting. I imagine a little more of like also like an enterprise thing,

27:27

right? We were

27:28

talking to bigger B2B fast companies. So I'm not surprised that they maybe had

27:35

a more

27:35

automated wire like email or had email qualification because they probably just

27:39

get so many more leads.

27:40

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It looked like Jocelyn has done it once with an SDR is

27:45

engaged with the right

27:46

person, but we haven't tried it yet before human. Yeah, interesting. Okay. Yeah

27:50

, I could see that too.

27:51

Sometimes if you're going back and forth with an SDR just asking them some

27:54

questions and maybe

27:55

you can do that in a more casual way. It's like two or three questions versus

27:59

just like a laundry

28:00

list of questions. Yeah. Okay, that's it for pre-fog qualification. Last thing,

28:07

sometimes the most

28:08

divisive thing, I don't know, pricing on your website. So obviously the Gold

28:13

Star was having

28:15

pricing packaging on the website. As I mentioned about like, it was interesting

28:19

, about 70% of companies

28:20

had a pricing page, which was really high. So 70% of the top need to be SaaS

28:24

companies had some type

28:25

pricing page, but only 54% actually showed their pricing. So a pretty big drop

28:32

of companies that

28:33

didn't show pricing. And I'm always a little torn because I do think having

28:38

some idea of what

28:38

the packaging structure is is nice, but sometimes as a prospect, I'm also a

28:42

little more frustrated if

28:43

I can't see the actual price. The pricing piece. So we had this draft there on

28:48

it, that we had a

28:48

pricing page with no price, which is like, and then we changed it to like plans

28:52

. The one out of

28:55

two, I feel like it's better than what I've seen in years past, like it

28:59

definitely was sub 50%.

29:01

To me, I think you should always provide a starting price. If you have three

29:11

packages,

29:12

package one, there's always a starting price. I just feel like it,

29:21

I mean, you're going to find out the price some way. Like, how many of us

29:25

listening is like,

29:27

right? Even if they have the price, I want to actually see what is the price.

29:30

Do they discount

29:31

a lot? Is it, you know, what is it higher? We're going to go someplace, talk to

29:34

a person in a

29:35

private or public community space online, do a LinkedIn poll, and we're going

29:39

to ask about the

29:40

price. We're going to search the G2 reviews and see if someone's talking to a

29:43

price like, I just,

29:45

see why try to hide it. In fact, if you have a decently strong pricing strategy

29:51

, Natalie,

29:52

like, it's going to be a huge advantage, right? And it actually could

29:56

accelerate the throughput

29:57

to people then saying, I want a demo or I want to check out the interactive

30:00

demo or, you know,

30:01

whatever. I just, I'm kind of just, that's my opinion on this.

30:05

Yeah, the way I see it, and because when I was first antibiotic, we actually

30:10

didn't have a pricing

30:11

page. And I had been pushing for a pricing page since I joined, but in defense

30:15

of the rest that

30:16

go to market team, we were still experimenting, like we were still trying to

30:18

find product market fit.

30:20

We were constantly changing. And if you're in that stage, I kind of understand

30:23

you might not be

30:24

ready. I do think to your point, maybe giving an anchor or giving a range or

30:27

something can help.

30:28

But part of the reason, of course, we were fearful about showing pricing was

30:31

one, it's MQL is

30:32

going to drop or less people are going to be interested. And two, are we going

30:35

to have less

30:36

negotiation power? And what was really interesting is we noticed that like MQL

30:40

is an ACB state pretty

30:41

consistent. ACB's went down a little bit, but in a weird way, showing pricing

30:46

actually, like, yes,

30:48

maybe sometimes you won't be able to put something something crazy and they say

30:51

, yes,

30:51

which maybe we shouldn't be doing anyways. But it almost helped with

30:54

negotiation because before,

30:56

when we didn't have pricing, and someone would say, well, I only have, you know

30:59

, let's say,

31:00

I only have $5. Obviously, no, software's $5. But in the past, you couldn't

31:05

pull up your pricing and say,

31:07

okay, well, you might only have $5, but our average cost is $50. So that's not

31:11

going to work. So I

31:12

felt like sometimes as the rep, they didn't have as much of a leg to stand on

31:15

when someone was

31:16

negotiating, or just having a pricing page and obviously we're so happy to be

31:20

flexible, but you

31:21

can at least have something to pull to and say like, okay, well, this is our

31:24

pricing. You can

31:25

clearly see it. I'm giving you this discount, but that's as low as I can go

31:28

because like, look at how

31:29

good of a deal you're getting versus when you don't show pricing, I think

31:31

prospects can pick up on

31:32

the fact that like, it's a little made up and they can try to make up their own

31:36

pricing, man.

31:36

I'm pretty aligned with that. I like your advice on early stage startups, pre-

31:41

product

31:41

market fit, very spot on. Got a couple comments. Yeah, what is Sam saying?

31:49

Oh, just when you like, as a small company, you jump on a demo and you're like,

31:54

oh, no,

31:54

I can never afford this. Thank you for making me do an entire 45 minute demo to

31:57

realize that.

31:58

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, it's to that. And as if you're a wrap, let's be

32:05

honest, like, you

32:05

probably, if someone can never afford your pricing, that's a waste of your 45

32:08

minutes too. So I think

32:10

especially as a bigger company, just give some indication. And if you don't

32:14

want to give indication

32:16

in the first demo, do it in the email, or very yet, what I really liked that

32:20

Toast did was they

32:22

made it clear that what to expect in your meeting, you will hear pricing. I

32:27

really like that because

32:28

sometimes you jump on that first call and you're like, what am I going to get

32:31

to ask pricing?

32:32

And what's so interesting, again, when I listen to sales calls is you can tell

32:35

sometimes prospects

32:36

don't be scared to ask. So like, okay, so I want to cover this and this and

32:39

like, and if it's okay,

32:41

pricing, I'm like, we got pricing on our website. Of course, we're happy to

32:45

discuss it. But it's

32:46

because we've all been on those calls where to Sam's point, they make you set

32:49

the entire 45 minutes,

32:51

and then maybe they tell you pricing and then you're like, okay, well, I could

32:54

never have

32:55

afforded that. So just give some people some indication. If you're not ready

32:59

for the website,

33:00

maybe email it to them beforehand. So they get an idea, no one's wasting each

33:03

other's time.

33:04

And that point you just made is so good because that reminds me of what is a

33:10

fundamental truth

33:11

to the entire rethink of lead to opportunity experience, which is expectation

33:16

setting.

33:16

Yes. Yeah, it's really just all about being upfront with your buyer. Like, I

33:23

think in the past,

33:25

people used to try to like bait and switch buyers or the reality is like when I

33:30

maybe like 10

33:30

years ago, the average person didn't know how to buy software. They didn't have

33:33

to buy a million

33:34

pieces of software. They didn't use a million pieces of software on their day

33:37

to day. So they

33:38

didn't really mind not knowing what's happening, that they were like, okay, I

33:41

don't really know

33:42

I'm doing you guide me through. Now on the other hand, we've all bought

33:45

software. We all know the game.

33:47

So it's like, we I feel like buyers can really sniff out if you're trying to

33:51

trick us or bait

33:52

and switch or setting a certain expectation and then showing up with another.

33:55

So it's like,

33:56

that doesn't work anymore. Buyers know way more than they ever did.

34:00

The buying experience is a direct representation of your marketing and a

34:04

representation of your

34:05

brand. It is your reputation in a way. This is why we're doing this webinar and

34:10

having this

34:10

conversation because it is so important because they will judge you not just on

34:14

your product

34:15

anymore. They will 100% judge you on how well that experience is designed and

34:21

executed.

34:22

And let's be honest, there's so much competition these days, which is still

34:26

crazy to me because

34:27

everyone's like, oh, the economy is not good. But I'm like, how are there so

34:29

many, how is there so

34:30

much competition? But I guess AI is making it even easier than ever to start

34:34

software. That being said,

34:35

if you're not a really seamless experience, even if you're better, people will

34:39

go with someone else

34:40

because we're all stressed, we're all have a million things going on. People

34:44

might not have

34:45

a week to wait to figure out whether or not what the pricing is or to see the

34:48

product.

34:50

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Anything else you want to cover off on this one, this slide?

34:56

I think pricing is pretty straightforward. Just show your pricing a little

34:59

before you can.

35:00

I think last thing, we've kind of touched on a lot of these, but one to go over

35:05

the simple ways

35:06

that like I made it like level one, two, and three that you can implement some

35:11

of these best

35:11

practices because whenever people talk about getting buy-in, honestly, I found

35:15

no matter what it is,

35:17

easiest way to get buy-in, it's a slowly nudge leadership there. So if you

35:24

really want,

35:24

so let's talk about calendar scheduling. You really want to have a calendar

35:28

scheduler on your

35:29

website and you go from very old school manual lead routing to calendar

35:34

scheduling the website,

35:35

that's going to be a shock to everyone. And you're going to have to really

35:39

convince them,

35:39

you're going to have no data to show. So I always recommend is like, okay, what

35:43

is stages that you

35:44

can get people comfortable? So stage number one, as I mentioned, send an

35:48

automated email after they

35:50

request a demo. I think this is the basic, send something automated so they

35:55

know, hey,

35:56

you are going to get a demo here, some additional resources. Then maybe suggest

36:01

like, okay,

36:02

automated email is doing really well. What if when the SDR reached out just to

36:06

make sure that people

36:07

can book easy? We also included a link in that email. Then if that works and

36:14

people get comfortable,

36:16

then you can say, hey, look, it's since we've implemented this in the email

36:19

sequence, we've noticed

36:21

time between, you know, MQL and opportunity has decreased by X amount. That can

36:27

be your

36:28

argument to why to put it on the website. So as far as getting buy-in, this is

36:32

kind of like the

36:32

good, better best model and how you can kind of move and convince throughout.

36:36

So hopefully helpful,

36:38

if you can't understand sometimes the website's really touchy too. So some

36:41

easier ways to experiment

36:42

in the email sequence. Now I love this classic crawl walk run and like all my

36:47

kids right now,

36:47

one is like not even crawling, one is walking, one is running. So yes, this is

36:51

exactly correct.

36:52

You have two more examples though too, right? Like I have ways to think about

36:56

changing the

36:58

buying experience a bit. Exactly. So we're going to go through, we've talked on

37:01

this a lot, so I'll go

37:02

through these quickly. But again, similar pre-qualification, if you're not

37:06

comfortable putting a demo on your

37:07

website, send it beforehand as we talked about, send it an outbound, use it and

37:11

add campaigns.

37:12

If you do get more comfortable, oh, apologies, there's a mistake in the middle

37:17

of the level too.

37:18

We got them a little crossed over, but if you do get more comfortable, start

37:22

adding it to your

37:22

website and then the ultimate third level is use multiple demos as a way to

37:27

almost pre-qualify

37:28

and then use that data to then hand your sales rep. And before that first call

37:33

say, hey, this

37:34

prospect went through this interactive demo, this interactive demo and this

37:38

interactive demo,

37:39

they're clearly interested in these features or use cases. Let's talk about

37:42

that on that first call.

37:44

How many, how many, or how long should an interactive demo be? We recommend

37:49

eight to 12 steps. So that's

37:51

probably about like a minute to a minute and a half. If you have multiple, so

37:56

that's where also

37:57

the create multiple interactive demos really comes in handy, right? Like you

38:00

can, you know,

38:02

have them each be eight to 10 steps. You probably can't show your whole product

38:05

in eight to 10 steps,

38:06

but you can show one specific use case or feature or maybe a persona based demo

38:11

but keep them short, they should be high level and get someone excited. The

38:14

best I've used this

38:16

metaphor before, so if you've heard it, sorry, but the best way I for it to

38:19

describe is it's an

38:20

appetizer, it's not the full meal. Okay, okay, yeah. Okay. And then here we

38:26

have the correct

38:27

full pricing one. We talked about this mostly. If you can't put pricing on your

38:31

website,

38:32

send it to people in advance or at least tell them like the toast example I

38:36

showed,

38:36

at least tell people about that first call they will learn pricing just for

38:39

expectation setting.

38:40

Yeah, yeah, I, the other thing I think this is related to is using interactive

38:48

demos. I'll give

38:49

one more example because I just want to make sure we're still good on time and

38:54

you have

38:56

an early access. Let me actually have you do this now that we can go off the

39:00

slides and just

39:00

refer a little bit. The next slide, once you've covered that, which is the

39:03

early access report,

39:04

yeah, just you guys all got some of the data that is not live or public yet. If

39:09

you do want

39:10

get early access to report, we're going to launch early access early next week.

39:13

So just put in the

39:14

chat or message me on LinkedIn and I'll make sure to add you to the early

39:18

access list, but

39:19

essentially it goes over a lot of the stats I covered in this report and a lot

39:23

more around

39:24

not just like, okay, here's what change from last year this year would be the

39:26

best practice,

39:27

but why we think that is. Okay, yeah, just drop a note. I want that report in

39:31

the chat or like,

39:32

you know, message Natalie like she said on LinkedIn. All right, so yeah, let's,

39:36

let's

39:36

stop sharing the slides, Natalie. Let's just talk about something I was

39:40

thinking through as

39:40

another example. And folks, if you have any questions, this is your time to ask

39:44

Natalie.

39:44

I mean, anything she'll try to answer any question to her best of abilities,

39:49

but maybe make

39:49

it about like what we're talking about today. Okay, there you go, Jocelyn.

39:55

Perfect.

39:55

I had an idea with that last with the pricing one. Interactive demos and webin

40:02

ars like this.

40:04

So one of the things that I've done in the past that we actually talked about

40:07

during

40:08

a recent club P of masterclass, which is available to insiders is this idea of

40:15

after 30 minutes or

40:16

45 minutes of the webinar, you have an optional breakout session that can

40:20

either be demo based,

40:22

like a short like live demo. It could be a workshop base for a quick thing, a Q

40:26

and A.

40:26

What have you, have you seen or have any thoughts on how to use interactive

40:31

demos

40:31

with the webinar programs you have? Yeah, we have a few customers who are using

40:37

interactive

40:37

demos and like post webinars. So a few different ways. One is almost like web

40:43

inar and enablement.

40:44

So I know it's a little different than when you're asking, but like, especially

40:47

for more product

40:48

webinars, new feature launches, beta access to your point, the demo, demo, I

40:52

think that's what

40:53

you've told it. You know, sometimes like it's kind of stressful to show your

40:57

live actual product

40:59

in a webinar sequence, like maybe something that's buggy or you're pushing new

41:03

releases or anything

41:04

like that. So we see some customers making interactive demo versions of their

41:08

product,

41:09

and those might not have like the guidance you typically see at interactive

41:12

demos.

41:13

So it might be more just like someone clicking through, but it's like a nice

41:17

environment that

41:18

won't break to show off a new feature. So that's one. And then what we'll see

41:21

customers do is

41:22

they'll create a version of that with guidance. So it says, rather than you

41:27

like the individual

41:28

just guiding it, someone can click through on their own. And then after the web

41:31

inar, they'll send

41:32

that out. So if you saw me, you know, walking through a new feature, if you

41:36

want to go learn

41:37

more about it and play around with it yourself, they'll send a link to the

41:40

interactive demo saying

41:41

like, hey, now you can play around with it on your own. One thing we've also

41:45

done too for like

41:46

virtual conferences, right, is usually there's sponsors of the conference and

41:51

they have virtual

41:52

booths. And maybe they'll get to vote a video or something, but we've now seen

41:57

some customers will

41:58

put their interactive demo in those virtual booths, just like full of customer

42:02

show interactive demos

42:02

at live conferences. And that's also a way is like, if you are a webinar attend

42:07

ee, and I'm listening

42:08

to this great talk, and I'm learning about your product, and like, maybe I'm

42:12

not ready for a demo,

42:13

but I want a little more, I can then head over to your virtual booth and then

42:15

check out your

42:16

interactive demo, because so often webinars are so high level, which is great.

42:20

No one likes to be

42:21

pitched on a webinar. But so often you leave being like, what does that company

42:24

actually do,

42:25

though? I'm kind of curious, I don't want a demo, but I just want to learn a

42:27

little more.

42:28

That's where we see customers do that. Very helpful advice. I love that. Yeah,

42:32

doing it with an

42:33

in-person event. Yeah, I mean, like the tying these into QR codes, I could see

42:40

that like

42:40

super effective, right? Like, yeah, like having a QR code in the bottom screen,

42:45

like scanning a

42:45

time for an interactive demo. Yeah, yeah, I mean, doing it after a live, like

42:51

in-person presentation,

42:53

you know how a lot of people use QR codes for that, like, you know, having to

42:56

be a secondary CTA

42:58

on some mid-funnel content on a specific landing page, having to be a thing on

43:05

thank you pages.

43:06

We see sometimes even customers put it on the Book of Demo page. Like, if you

43:13

're not ready, like,

43:14

hey, want to lock demo. If like, in the meantime, before you get your demo, or

43:18

if you're not ready,

43:19

yet, check out this interactive demo. And I would argue this is this goes back

43:23

to the whole topic

43:24

of the webinar today lead to opportunity rethinking it, testing it on a, on a,

43:34

on a, within an experience

43:35

when someone converts into a leader MQL, because most people still have that

43:38

concept, right? A lead

43:39

MQL and doing it right away because there's a slim chance that that's the first

43:45

time they ever

43:46

interacted with your brand or heard about your brand or went to your web that

43:49

gets most likely,

43:50

like, you know, they're either, you know, 30%, 50% of the way through, like,

43:56

studying stuff and

43:57

they now opting into something, you might be able to just increase the, the,

44:02

the, that, or decrease the

44:03

time to someone becoming an actual opportunity by presenting this sooner. Any

44:09

thoughts or data

44:10

around that, Natalie? Yeah, I mean, we've definitely seen customers say that

44:15

this is, I don't have a

44:16

hard stat, got back my mind, but help decrease the sales cycle because to your

44:20

point, it's letting

44:21

someone wallify a little bit on their own before jumping into that live demo. I

44:27

think a lot of it

44:28

to your point of like, the old model assumes that it's a very linear path and

44:33

almost tried to like

44:34

use the product as a, as a carrot. It's like, okay, keep coming down this

44:40

funnel and if you finally

44:41

want to see my product, you'll get to see it after the book a demo. Like, we're

44:46

worried that someone's

44:47

only going to be interested if we like hide it from them. It's like this calf,

44:51

it's saying, okay,

44:53

I'm going to let you see it upfront. You get an idea of, yes, this looks good

44:56

for you or no,

44:56

it doesn't. But then that first call isn't going to be a, hey, can you tell me

45:00

what you guys all do,

45:02

because I love your content. I love your marketing. But I have no idea what you

45:04

do. It's going to be

45:05

like, I saw your demo, I understand the basics of what you do. Now I have some

45:09

very specific questions

45:11

to go over in this call. So to your point about like speed opportunity, you can

45:15

really sometimes

45:15

eliminate that first high level. What do you do demo and kind of go straight

45:20

into the, or even

45:21

what do you do discovery and go straight into more the like in depth discovery

45:25

around like,

45:25

what specific use cases are you looking for? Like, why is now the pain point?

45:29

Like, I think it just

45:30

makes that first call, as I mentioned, also a little more enjoyable than

45:34

interviewee.

45:37

Love it. Love it. Love it. Natalie, thank you so much, folks. Any other last

45:41

minute questions

45:41

before you wrap it up for today, of course, get in touch with Natalie. She'll

45:45

be in touch with

45:46

most of you. It sounds like regarding the upcoming report and study, but

45:50

anything else, let's see.

45:52

No, just in my end, I will invest in you on LinkedIn about the report. And then

45:57

also,

45:57

we have just like an ongoing list with everyone on early access. Without early

46:01

access, we'll be

46:02

coming out early next week. Oh, so exciting. All right, Natalie. Well, thank

46:05

you so much

46:06

for the time today. I love everything you folks are doing. Love the approach

46:11

and philosophy around

46:12

the idea of buyer first. It's all related to people first. So again, thank you

46:19

for everything,

46:20

and I can't wait to see the full report. Yeah, thanks, everyone, for coming out

46:25

Cheers. Everyone.

X

This is a test comment.

X

This is a longer test comment to see how this looks if the person decides to ramble a bit. So they're rambling and rambling and then they even lorem ipsum.


author