Zero-Click Content & 2024 Marketing Stats | Amanda Natividad
In this must-listen episode of GTM News Desk, hosts Nick Bennett and Mark Kilens are joined by the highly respected Amanda Natividad. They explore the dynamic role of AI in content creation, the significance of maintaining a human touch in marketing strategies, and why brevity can be crucial in content. Amanda shares her expert insights on balancing algorithm-driven content with people-first approaches, providing actionable tips that every marketer should know. Tune in to learn how to craft content that truly resonates in today's digital landscape.
He had two videos side by side and they were the same exact video, same exact
talk track.
And so one of them was AI and one of them was actually him.
And to be honest with you, I actually couldn't tell the difference.
I use it, but I don't like how it's being used in these ways.
Or like I'm going to use it all the way.
I'm just going to become one of the most politically charged things I think
that happens over the next five to ten years.
They don't really get it.
They don't understand editing, right?
They think you're a content marketer, like can you just do it?
Or like can't that writer just do it?
But writing and editing are two different skill sets.
Real talk backed up with real action.
This is GTM News Desk.
I'm Nick Bennett and I'm Mark Killens.
Let's see what's trending.
All right, welcome to another GTM News Desk episode.
Super excited about this one.
We have a fantastic, I guess that's in our third segment today.
I'm sure you all know our man and the two that add really breaks down zero
click content.
You're going to love it.
But we've got some headlines that we want to talk about beforehand.
I'm going to kick things off here with our first story of the day.
And I think this one's a little interesting.
You know, Sam Rush, they put out a blog recently about content marketing
statistics.
And I figured we could dive into kind of like some of those content marketing
statistics.
Because I think some of them are interesting and in marketing, you know, I don
't have a
content marketing background by any means.
I know maybe you don't either, but I think that like we've done a lot of.
I do Nick.
You don't know me.
I have a content marketing background.
What do you mean?
I guess I mean, we could all say we have content marketing back.
I said, like I post content on LinkedIn.
This is what I was going to say dude.
Everyone creates content these days thanks to freaking Mark Zuckerberg and
Steve Jobs iPhone.
Everyone creates content.
That's true.
All right.
Let's get into a few things.
So I want to call out a few of these statistics here.
So there was one about long form content and the fun enough are our guest
Amanda.
She talks about content being too long.
So we're talking about long form content, 3000 plus words.
It gets three times more traffic, four times more shares and three and a half
times more
backlinks than shorter articles, which is interesting.
Now I think it's impressive.
And now I mean again, I'm just taking this, I'm reading the data.
I don't know if I've tested this personally.
Like I feel like for me, my sweet spot's about 1500 words, but from a B2B
context, I feel
like death and quality of insights are paramount.
So like when you think about how long form content works and it works well
because you can
have a comprehensive like breakdown of a topic, which depending on your
industry, your
niche segment, all those things make sense.
But I think it's essential to balance that depth with readability, which I feel
like sometimes
people forget about like, how do I like as a content marketer, you're so stuck
in your
little zone or as someone that creates content, you're stuck in your little
zone, but you
forget about the readability and engagement piece.
So how can you break long form content into digestible sections?
How can you use visual elements?
How can you provide executive summaries for people like, you know, the exact
teams that
just don't have enough time to read it?
And I think it's interesting because this is important of I feel like a larger
piece,
like how do you chop up content into a bunch of different pieces and distribute
it?
But like, how do you, how do you focus on readability?
And I'm curious on your thoughts on that piece or better planning and better
editing and
better research.
I mean, you know, in practice, practice, you know, makes perfect maybe, but it
does help,
it does help a lot.
There is not one single way to do content marketing.
I mean, this, this thing from SDM rush 96 something stats.
So there's, there's an interesting thing happening right now in content
marketing world.
A lot of people are over indexing a little bit too much maybe on this research
based content.
That well will dry up.
I mean, it's, there's only so many times you can, you can do this research.
I, I would say that good research based content, which this is, it has a rhythm
to it.
Maybe it's once a year, maybe it's every six months, but it's not just
publishing stats.
Like no offense, this SDM rush thing kind of sucks.
I'm calling it a SDM rush.
But it's just a bunch of bullshit stats that it's curing it from all these
places.
So I don't even think it's their own research.
Some of it might be some of it is a lot of just curation.
It's like, so what?
Like, okay, you give me a stat.
Like, so fucking cares.
Like, give me the TLDR, the really sharp insight that says this is how you
should think
about this or act on it or do something with it or like, give me the meat, not
the potatoes.
I am so excited to talk more to Amanda because I know she's very passionate
about this idea
of less is more.
And when you just throw stats at people, it's like, you're not going to
remember any of that
stuff.
It's like cool stats, stats, stats, stats.
Like, but when you add a personal story with that stat and give it life and
make it actually
something that jumps off the screen or jumps off the paper, you might have
something better
there.
I don't know, SCM rush and I'm not just calling you.
I'm going to call out anyone and I'm guilty of this.
I've done this in my past jobs.
You know, we didn't maybe do a good job of giving value with the stat.
You're just throwing stats out.
It's just come on.
We can do better.
Yeah, 100%.
And it's, you know, I think going through a lot of these stats, I agree.
I'm just like, you know, kind of really.
And I'm like, huh, that's cool.
But one thing, the last thing that I wanted to touch in on this because I feel
like
it's something that we're leaning into is video content.
The last thing that I wanted to say is that I'm going to call it a video
content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm going to call it a video content.
I'm looking at this, blogging continues to be a top marketing strategy.
Yes, blogging is important.
It's important.
Top marketing strategy.
Should you use AI for blogging?
Absolutely.
But never to replace human writers own just streamline their work.
How many people have said that?
It's not interesting.
Blogging is important to making sure that you have the right representation of
your brand
and product on search because people are always going to search.
Great.
Here's how we think about blogging today in an example.
That's a much better way to explain this than just saying what everyone else is
saying.
And look, everyone including ourselves is our guilty of this.
It's not easy to get to this level of thoughtful content, genuine content.
So I think the video thing is like we've been saying this for 50 forever.
Guess what?
TV's been around for 100 years almost.
Yes, video is very important and good.
So I don't know.
I may be just too negative right now about all this stuff, but I'm trying to
give positive
light to this Nick where you can do something like what SCM rush has done, but
do it in a way
that truly injects a personality and a point of view into a research-based
piece of content
and not just make it a listicle of stats, right?
And not just, you know, paint by a thousand numbers or whatever, right?
Like just give it some texture, give it some like nice life.
And that kind of goes into segment number two, which is this whole thing with
Instagram.
Mark Zuckerberg, we already mentioned it once in this episode.
Not a huge fan.
I definitely gave up a lot of potential money by not investing in Facebook,
even though
I knew Facebook stock was good, you pretty well.
I, on principle, Nick did not invest in Facebook.
And now I technically have, which kind of annoys me because I know in some of
the mutual funds
that Facebook's part of it.
So it's like, I'm like, well, am I going to go to that extreme?
Maybe I should.
But anyway, I gave up Facebook as you might know, Nick, in 2007.
I've not logged in since because I could see issues coming down the road.
And you could say I was kind of right with some of these issues.
But now I think it meta is doing something insane, which is they're letting
people create
AI versions of themselves, which look, do I believe that every single person on
this planet
will have an AI agent or multiple AI agents or whatever new terms we come up
with that are
going to help them live a better life?
Yes, I'm excited about that.
Maybe this is a step in that direction.
I just feel like right now that the way that they're doing it where it's like,
hey, the
new AI studio, you can create characters for Instagram, WhatsApp and Messenger
in the
web. And it's kind of like a free for all.
I just like, why?
Like, why would you, so Nick, why would you create an AI version of yourself?
Would you do it?
Well, you know, it's interesting because there's this other tool out there
called, I think
it's called the KGN or something like that.
And so Ross Simmons was the one that told me about it.
And so I saw him write something where he had two videos side by side.
And they were the same exact video, same exact talk track.
And so one of them was AI and one of them was actually him.
And to be honest with you, I actually couldn't tell the difference.
I like had to go to the comments to be able to see like, which one was AI and
which one wasn't.
And so I actually on one of my old podcasts, I had them on and I asked them
about that.
I said, you know, what's the point of investing in like an AI version of
yourself?
And he said to scale content.
And I thought it was interesting because if you think about this and like, you
know,
if you look at like a TikTok or I'm sure Instagram as well, it's like people
are creating
faceless channels and AI versions and they're making tons of money through
brand deals because
it's so easy to create content.
Go on, go on like a chat GPT or clot or something.
Come up with this really interesting script or, you know, whatever.
And you basically just feed it into this software and it creates you doing it.
And it's like, great, I don't actually have to get on camera.
I don't have to go film myself.
I don't have to edit anything.
It just does it all for me.
So that's where I can see it being.
I get it could be kind of creepy kind of weird because there's big channels out
there that
are all just they're 100% AI and they have millions of followers and like some
people don't
even know it's AI, but it clearly says it.
And I don't know.
I'm just like, could that be a way to like scale content and like not having to
shoot
your own content?
If you can make it look like like I'm talking right now in a that AI version,
because look
exactly like me word for word.
It doesn't look like a robot or anything like that.
I might actually try it.
Why do we need?
Why do we need you Nick?
Well, we still I'm just kidding.
But that's I mean, it's like I'm kidding, but like seriously, you do, it's a
really great
mental thought exercise around around a table to have.
I mean, look, go back to this article meta.
Calls it out where they say this is an AI avatar person.
So like it should be labeled like, yeah, and there's there's a lot of accounts
like you
said that are just AI generated.
I think what's happening, AI is to become one of the most politically charged
things and
you already see this on LinkedIn, at least where there are people taking sides
like I hate
the AI.
I use it, but I don't like how it's being used in these ways or like I'm going
to use it
all the way.
I just going to become one of the most politically charged things.
I think that happens over the next five to 10 years as it really kind of gets
ingrained.
And hopefully it can become something that is not so much about like the AI,
but it's about
how do people use it, which is going to ultimately what matters at the end of
the day.
It's like, who cares what the technology is like, what is the use and then the
result of
that use.
And it is going to create, I think, more the ability for more bad actors.
I'm nervous about AI because I don't think unless we really are thoughtful
about how we
use it.
It could easily be another whole social media shits storm, which really has, it
's hurting
the younger generations, even older generations, people, mental health.
This is a fact is being compromised day in and day out by social media, social
networks.
I am concerned gravely that AI is going to exacerbate that and even do more
damage.
So I don't know.
I'm, I'm, I'm nurse.
Yeah.
I mean, the next, the next year will be interesting for sure.
So the conversation with a man is coming up next.
We're going to talk about algorithms.
We've just talked about AI.
I think there's a huge amount of crap that's kind of happened because now AI is
getting
layered into algorithms and companies are going to have to be very thoughtful
and careful
about how they use these technologies for hopefully the greater good.
And when you think about content, which is what we're going to talk to a man
about Nick,
how do we create content that is really going to be something that that person
who gets
seen that content, usually now because of an algorithm or AI or hopefully comes
from
a person, right?
There's some still social sharing happening in the world is done in a
thoughtful, the right
way and done in a way that genuine.
So I mean, Amanda is a pro at this.
She knows a ton of great content.
She's talked a ton about and created the term Nick, right?
Zero click content.
Yep.
She, I mean, she's the creator of that, the creator.
She is going to help us all understand the balance between the algorithm, the
human
and the lib of the AI.
She's like, yeah, I mean, just the stuff that we talked about today with this
stuff with
AI, I am nervous.
I am nervous.
Are you nervous?
I'm nervous, but I'm excited.
But yeah, I mean, still, still nervous.
Absolutely.
I'm optimistic.
I'm optimistic that we can figure this stuff out.
But like the last 15, 20 years of these algos and what's happened with social
media, it
gives me a great pause.
I will say that 100%.
All right, let's go to segment three with Amanda.
All right.
We are here for segment three of this episode.
We're super excited.
We have someone that I feel like I've known Amanda for years now.
She's actually been on multiple other podcasts of mine.
So I'm excited to have her here.
If you don't know her, Amanda Nativity that she's the VP of Marketing or a
Spark Toro.
Absolutely changing the game.
One of the smartest people I know.
And so I'm super stoked to have her here.
We're going to kind of be diving into a few other things.
Ultimately, we want to think about going beyond the traditional experiences and
expectations
around demand.
And honestly, Spark Toro is changing the game.
And I think Amanda is playing a big piece of that a chorus with Rand as well.
But we're going to dive into it.
Amanda, again, super stoked to have you here.
I think you're going to add a lot of value.
So, you know, people know who you are.
We'll make sure to link everything.
But let's dive into kind of the first question here.
And it's really pretty simple.
But how do you make content today not suck?
How do you make content today not suck?
It's like, you know what?
Honestly, that's a really good question.
I think that's a good way to phrase it because when you think about content
that sucks, you
might think of content that's like commoditized.
Anybody could create it.
It's not interesting.
It is.
It rambly.
It's not helpful, right?
I might describe a lot of content that sucks as AI generated content, right?
Like you have, we're starting to see a lot of people like feed crap into chat
GPT and
then be like, "Hey, let's just use this for our content."
And it sucks.
And I think more and more, right?
Readers, users can spot this a mile away and they're like, "I'm not going to
read this."
Right?
So, when I think about content that doesn't suck, I think about things like,
what would
I actually want to read?
Like if I were the target audience for this thing, would I want to read this?
I think about things like, as the person writing it, right?
As the writer, do I think this is interesting in some way?
Do I, does it amuse me?
Right?
Is this better than chat GPT?
That's kind of what I think about these days.
I love that.
I know Mark has lots of thoughts around that because we've talked a lot about
that the AI
side of things.
But you know what really pisses me off is like so many people on social now,
like LinkedIn
definitely, like people are just basically resplend comments using AI.
And I feel like they're so easy to spot out.
And it's like, you would think they would get better with time, but I feel like
, I don't
know, it just, it annoys me because like I like to reply to, like when I write
content,
like I reply to every single comment.
And I can tell that it's AI written, but I still like be like obligated to
reply to
it.
And I don't know, it just, it just makes me so mad because like deep down, like
I really
wish I didn't reply to this.
But like, you know, the algorithm will kill you if you don't, you know, reply
to everything.
So Mark, I don't know if you have it.
I know, I thought you think a lot about AI.
Well, I mean, I like AI.
I'm very excited about the future of AI.
Going back to this question, to me, and this gets into the next question,
Amanda, that
I'll ask you in just a moment.
But when it comes to making content that sucks, a lot of people don't spend
enough time
planning and thinking through how they want to architect something that to your
point,
I think it's very well said, is something that the audience you're trying to
create a connection
with and build a relationship with is going to find interesting.
So it's like that classic thing where you're spending 80% of your time planning
, 20% of
your time executing.
And I think content marketers today now feel like they can take shortcuts
because of
some things like AI, but there's other technology too that allows you to like
make it easy.
And no, like you actually want to create more friction, more time in the
process of creating
something that is really unique and of value.
So yeah, for me, it's being a bit more thoughtful about your content strategy
and involving
more people in the creation of the content.
Like you really want to get more people to be part of that experience so that
you have
a diverse set of voices and it's more inclusive for the audience, I think.
Yeah.
Say more about more people.
Do you mean like, do you mean even just in the broadest sense?
Like are you thinking about your whole audience or do you mean like actually
getting more stakeholders?
It's a bit about both I think.
I think there's definitely more people that can be part of the actual content
that gets
created and published and shared around, but then working with people inside
your company
to almost validate going back to the idea of planning, some of the things you
're going
to create like, hey, we're going to spend 50, 100 hours, maybe thousands or
tens of thousands
of dollars creating this.
Do you feel like this is something that is going to help you do your job better
, which means
ultimately help the company succeed more, which means it's going to hopefully
add something
of value and interest to the audience that we're all trying to create a
partnership with,
right?
What's up with something with?
So just spending more time validating ideas or assumptions or facts to your
question is
both in my opinion.
Yeah, I could see that.
I think like, I think one really good way to involve more people in your
content creation
is to really just be present on social media in a way that shows that you're
pulling
and other people's thoughts, their opinions, really rounding out your point of
view.
Sometimes the way that I, if I have enough time and I'm able to just kind of
put more thought
into this, I really like asking questions on social media like I think did, for
instance,
like asking people's opinion on something and then from there seeing how people
respond
to that and seeing like, maybe I can quote people, right?
Or oftentimes I'll even DM them and ask them like, hey, can I ask you a couple
of follow-up
questions on this?
Would love to quote you my upcoming blog post.
It's also just a really great way to round up the perspective source additional
quotes,
even just raise other people up, right?
And just even be like, hey, you had a really good opinion on this thing.
I really want people to see your point of view.
Do you have more to say on this topic?
Spawn on.
I always say 80%.
It might even be 100% now, but I've used this rule since my days at HubSpot.
Like 80% of your content should involve other people in the content.
It needs to have those voices that are the actual audience or at least voices
that the audience
wants to learn from or hair from or care about.
So this might be a tough question because I want one answer, Amanda.
So think long and hard.
What is the biggest mistake, content marketers, or anyone creating content in
2024?
What is that biggest mistake they're making today right now?
I think the biggest mistake people are making is making content that's too long
Ooh, I like it.
I like it.
Okay.
So let's unpack this now.
This should get interesting.
Tell us more.
I'll just say tell us more first.
Yeah.
I hear that feeling right when you like a lot of times people say like, oh,
that business
book could have been a blog post.
Now I just feel like that blog post could have been a tweet, you know, or that
blog post
could have been a short LinkedIn post, right?
Because I feel like so many times and I say this as somebody who I write two
newsletters.
So I am often looking for content to link to and I'm saying content in the
sense that I'm
talking about any kind of content, talking about white papers, ebooks, blog
posts, newsletter
posts, sub stacks, YouTube videos, right?
Any kind of content.
I'm often looking for this stuff, which means I'm often consuming this stuff.
So I would say is like I'm reading a lot, I'm watching a lot and almost every
single time
I'm going to say somehow more than nine times out of 10, although not quite 10
out of 10
times, I'm reading something or watching something and I'm like, oh my gosh,
just get to the
point.
And I'm reading it and I'm watching it and I'm like, I get like a quarter of
the way through
and I'm like, that's where you should have started.
So I feel like maybe even just one easy way that people can remedy this, not
easy, maybe
simple, right?
Because simple might not be easy.
One simple way to remedy this is to like finish that blog post or whatever that
content
is and then challenge yourself to be like, can I say this exact same thing in
70% of the
time?
So I love this.
I'm going to, you know, Nick Chiamin to feel free, but there's two things I
want to call
out here.
I think one of the biggest skill sets that it should be happening already, but
now with
the advent of all these shortcuts, whatever is editing.
Editors and editing is going to be one of the top, top things that a company is
going to
look for, especially on the marketing team.
So I would love to get your reaction to that.
And then another tip I'll give folks in addition to yours is this idea of bluff
Have you ever heard of bluff?
Amanda?
I've got it's a military term bottom line up front.
So it goes to the point you made about get to the point, put the bottom line,
the most important
thing up front and then you can unpack it.
But like, don't bury the lead.
What do you think though about editing the editor piece?
Like there's like content worker to content marketers.
What about content editors?
Hello?
We need more, right?
Like I think the tough thing is that people who don't understand editing AKA
business leaders,
right?
Like really the people who are not running the content day to day, but are
somehow responsible
for the organization or for the team, they don't really get it.
They don't understand editing, right?
They think you're a content marketer.
Like can you just do it or like can't that writer just do it?
But writing and editing are two different skill sets, right?
Like not everyone's a great editor, not everyone's a great writer.
You can be a good editor, but you might not be a great writer, right?
Because part of editing, and it's not all of it, part of editing is having that
sensibility
of like this isn't quite right, right?
And maybe it's pushing back on the writer or the author to say like this idea
here, this
isn't really a match, the tone of everything else you're saying or like you're
not using
a clear enough example.
I'm going to challenge you on this.
You should try it again.
But that editor might not know what it needs to be, right?
Just they might know some things wrong with it, but they might not know the
exact solution.
And just like anybody writing, so you can be a really good writer, but like
they're going
to be flaws or imperfections in what you write that you might not catch
yourself, right?
So of course people can be good at both, but not everybody is, right?
So we need good editors to challenge us on our ideas, to challenge us on our
tone and
our writing and our flow. And it's just a really hard skill set, I think, to
hone because I think
part of it is, I mean, both writing and editing are hard, but I think to some
degree if you
write a ton, you'll kind of just naturally get better, but I don't know that
you can edit
a ton, right?
Like what are you going to edit?
You can't edit.
I mean, you can try.
I mean, you can't really edit completed works and have already been published
because they've
already been edited. You could try sure, but I don't know what good that's
going to do,
especially because if you're just editing, you're not, how are you going to
know if it's
good, right?
So if you're writing and rewriting and you just put it out there and base in
the response,
you'll over time come to understand like, oh, I didn't write that very well. Or
I did
write this very well, right?
You can't really test that in the same way for editing.
I was going to say after, after finally writing a book, which I don't recommend
to anyone.
It's a good point because I don't, I don't think I'm a, I mean, I'm an okay
writer.
I'm a terrible editor, but I had to write in edit and then the publisher was
like, all right,
we're bringing in our own editor.
And so I was like, what are you going to edit though?
Everything's already like done.
What are you going to change?
And she like came back to me with about like 10 pages of stuff.
And I was just like, I mean, this is about 90,000 words.
And I was just like, all right.
So like, I have to now go and change all of these things.
And it was just, it was a lot, but it was like stuff that I just, I don't know,
maybe, again,
maybe I could sell my strong suit.
So I wouldn't have picked up on things like this.
But there was things that wouldn't, I saw it.
I was like, oh, okay.
That makes a lot of sense.
But like, like you said, you need someone that's like, that's like what they do
and they
do it well.
Right.
And that person might not have ever written a book, right?
But doesn't mean they're not a good editor.
They obviously are.
Do you know, like was it a team that edited your book?
Was it a person?
So it was a person that they contract out to to edit it.
And like, this is her only job.
Like every book that this company publishes, like she goes and like does all
the editing
for it regardless of topic.
How did you feel about getting the edits?
Like, how did you feel?
Like how did you, what did you do next?
How did you get that feedback?
Like, how meaning like, what did you do with it?
Like, what was that next flow of work like for you?
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, it was, it was terrible because like I just wanted to be done
with it.
Like after doing this for like a year and a half, like I thought I shipped it
off and I
was like, all right, cool.
They'll just go into production.
It will come out.
And like now I get all these pages of edits that I have to go back and like
spend more
time doing.
I mean, it was like some of the things were so simple, but I was just like, can
't you just
edit it for me and just pop it in and then narrow like you have to go do it.
And like honestly, there's a lot of things that like I don't think a typical
reader reading
it would pick up on, but I understand why they want to do it.
But I mean, it didn't make me happy having to go back and do that because it
added hours
of additional work at night.
Like I had to go and like spend time going through like page by page, chapter
by chapter
and like going through this Google doc and like making sure everything is
checked off.
But I mean, I get that's that's her job and like that's what's supposed to do.
Totally.
Totally.
I was just sitting here thinking like I was kind of smiling to myself because I
was thinking
it's like, it's like you spent a whole year making a baby and you gave birth to
that baby
and they're like, hey, we have feedback on this baby and you're like, I can't
change it.
This is what it is.
You can't give me feedback on this baby.
Uh, so true.
So let's talk about you talked a little bit about executives and leadership
teams.
So you know, what's the most common misconception from executives about content
led growth to content
today?
I'm sure there's a bunch of them, but if we can hone on like one of them, like
I think that
would be fantastic.
You know, I think a problem that people are still facing in this is having like
a shared
understanding or shared agreement as to how content is driving business goals.
I think in the worst or like the kind of most toxic version of this, a CEO is
saying, you
wrote these blog posts.
Why don't we have more customers now, right?
Where it's like, well, it doesn't really work like that.
It doesn't mean like one blog post equals two customers.
It's not that.
I think that's kind of one overall problem.
And what I think I think executive is it's hard to say this because also like I
can't
say this is true of every executive, right?
Sounds like a generalization, but I'm going to try to make this broadly
applicable.
But I think there needs to be more understanding that content, right, is both a
growth and
brand play, right?
Like I think we should be figuring out business goals for content.
Like we should be figuring out ways to make sure the content we're creating is
working
towards getting new leads, helping those leads convert, maybe helping existing
customers
stay, right?
Like we should be thinking about these things at the same time, we should not
be thinking
like so transactionally about like attribution and measurement, right?
We can't be thinking about this.
Like you worked on two blog posts a week, every week for the past six months
and our customer
growth only one of this much.
I think it's the contents fault.
It's like I think there need to be other ways that more executives need to like
track success
earlier on along the way, right?
Where it's not so much looking back in the past six months, the past year and
being like what
happened?
Why don't we have a better business today?
Maybe it's identifying the shorter term, sorts of goals that you can feel along
the way.
Like I think we're on to something.
I think it's going well.
So that if something is not going well, you can change course, right?
Or like redirect or like revisit that content strategy before you've gone to
this point
of like, but there are a hundred content pieces and nothing has happened.
Like there's a problem here.
I think we need to executives, you don't need to figure out earlier on in the
process.
What are these, you know, these key performance indicators?
What are these KPIs?
I love that.
Mark, you got anything you want to add to that?
I agree that attribution is just a cluster.
Fuck.
I have found to create like a customer journey.
And so there's software now that's doing this better at scale with AI.
So you can see out of all of the content and even content like the way you
define content,
that needs to be a little bit more clear.
Because you know, you came up with the terms or kudos to you, zero click
content.
That's content.
How is that influencing and helping a deal close or helping a customer become
more loyal
and become a champion?
Like, how can we take all of the engagements that someone has with content?
No matter if it's published on your one of your own channels like your website
or on one
of the rented channels and understand how that changes someone's mindset or
behavior
to then do something that does influence or directly have an impact on revenue.
So I am bullish that some of the AI stuff can help solve this and it becomes
less of an
opinion a little bit.
And the data just is the data and it can't really, you know, fudge it that much
But when you look at the hard facts, hopefully with, hey, the data is clean.
It's clean as it can be.
This is what it's telling us.
That's great.
And it lets, let's use that to create better content or create less content and
create more
content.
And it's holistically looking at all content, not just the things that are the
conversion
points behind the landing page.
That will be a better day for everyone.
So people first GTM, it's something we talk a lot about Amanda.
It's the power of using storytelling, relationships of partnerships to match
how you go to market
to how people buy.
What does people first content look like in your mind?
People first content to me is just content.
Like isn't your content for people anyway?
Oh, let's pause there.
Let's pause there.
I think a lot of us have been trained to create content for search engines.
Yeah.
A lot of us have been trained content.
Hold on, I got a call, I got a call you out Nick.
A lot of us have been trained to create content for the LinkedIn Elgo.
I listen to that shit.
Yeah, Nick, he's a guy.
That's me.
I can name a ton of people, right?
And like, she's okay, LinkedIn is going to serve it to the right audience.
I don't know.
I mean, so yeah, what do you think?
You're right.
I think a lot of people have been trained to write content for the algorithms,
for the machine
learnings, for those things.
But those are trying to mimic people.
Like when you're trying to optimize for search, it's because search is trying
to optimize
to serve up, well, theoretically, right?
Theoretically, they're trying to serve up the most helpful content to people,
right?
I think with the rise of dark social, with more and more clicks or more and
more searches
ending without a click, it becomes more important than ever to think people
first, sort of at the
sacrifice of the algorithm, sort of.
Right?
So what I mean by that is, we were talking about this earlier.
I can't remember if this was before the recording or not, but talking about the
notion of like,
when you're replying on LinkedIn, like the algorithm doesn't like it if you don
't reply.
What I might challenge is on is, so what?
Just like, do what you got to do.
If you can't reply to everything, don't reply to everything because you're only
human,
right?
So no person thinks this person who's post them commenting on, they need to
read every
single comment and they need to leave a reply on every single comment.
No rational human believes that, you know?
What I'm going to say too is like, is that extra time, energy, worry, is that
worth the
incremental lift you might get in the algorithm?
Like is all of that worth it?
Or are you better off doing your best within reason and replying to half of
those comments?
And I'm going to say that how can we think about that across everything?
Right?
You know for your blog posts that you want to get found in search.
Like, at some point, you might run out of keywords to target on your blog,
right?
And be after the year or so of a keyword research focus strategy, you're going
to kind of run
out of keywords to go after.
But you might still have content ideas you want to pursue, right?
So then maybe you're not optimizing for the high volume keyword.
Maybe you are just optimizing for that content to get read, baby shared, and
then later found,
right?
So maybe what you want is like, you got the keyword to the degree that's like,
yeah, I want
people to search for this keyword and find my blog posts because they're
looking for my
blog posts.
Maybe you have to thought not so much 60,000 people a month or searching the
terms marketing
strategy.
How do I get that term?
Maybe it's like, I think people, I'm going to create this content marketing
guide that
I think is super helpful.
And I spent a lot of time writing this.
I think people are going to read this like this and share it once they see it.
So I'm going to just call my guide the smarter, not harder guy to content
marketing.
Tell people about it, share it across all my platforms, all my audiences, and
hopefully
they'll find it.
And now if you search for smarter, not harder content marketing guide, you'll
find spark
toros or my blog posts on this, right?
Sure.
I could check the keyword volume on that.
I'm sure it's like one, you know, you know, look, I'm sure it's not high.
It probably isn't there, but in my mind, it's, I am not trying to rank for
content marketing
guide because HubSpot claimed that spot, like what 15 years ago, I'm not going
to get it.
And do I think that content marketers that they all would benefit from HubSpot
's content
marketing guide today?
Sorry, but I don't think so.
I don't think that's going to be the best content, even though it probably
ranks number
one.
Do I think mine is the best?
No, because the best is also subjective, right?
Like I believe mine is very helpful.
I believe it is valuable.
I believe it is going to be impactful for content marketers of any level, but I
can never
know if it's going to be the best.
One person I'm sure will say it's the best, just like I'm sure 10 other people
are going
to say it's fine.
Right?
So the best I can do is write content for people, for people who I believe are
going to read
it, like it and share it and make sure that it's easily findable for the people
who know
that that exists.
Yeah, well said focus less, a lot less on the channel, maybe 25% on the channel
, focus
75% on what's going to make that piece of content get passed around person to
person.
Right.
And things like you could always take a sort of SEO or algorithm informed
approach to content.
Right?
Like right content you think people want to read.
Of course, right?
Posture content in such a way that you think it's going to be algorithmically
rewarded.
Sure.
Like of course we should do these things, but I don't think this means, oh, the
algorithm doesn't like when I post polls.
I don't know.
I'm making this up.
This is not true.
The LinkedIn algorithm doesn't like it when I use polls.
Therefore, I'm never going to do polls.
I don't think that's the takeaway, right?
And the takeaway is going to be like, wow, I really wanted published polls.
So how can I do this in a way that is going to get amplified and not so much?
Oh, the algorithm doesn't like it.
So I'm never going to do it.
Yeah, it's a hard thing to get your head around because we've been trained by
these algorithms
and they're trained to make money for the companies.
So it is a slippery, slippery slope.
And it's not easy to just, you know, because you're serving two masters to
figure out which
master you're going to serve, but I would encourage everyone listen to what a
manager
said and serve more the person versus the alga.
Nick, do you want to get to the really deep stuff?
Yeah, yeah, let's dive in.
So head on over to find this exclusive conversation on Tech Network.
We're going to be diving into Amanda's proven framework.
Excited for that.
And we'll see you on the other side.
Thanks for joining us on this episode of GTM News Desk, presented by the Tech
Network.
To hear our full conversation with our guests today, head to the link in the
show notes
to subscribe to the Tech Network.
Until next time, I'm Mark Killens and I'm Nick Bennett.
Keep it people first, everybody.