Nick Bennett & Mark Kilens 28 min

Event Marketing, Buyer-First Practices, and Growth Hacking


Discover event success tips, Navattic's buyer-first insights, and the relevance of growth hacking in 2024 with Bethany Murphy on GTM News Desk.



0:00

Don't treat demos as a discovery call.

0:04

That is a massively big issue in our industry.

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Field marketers, event marketers has been treated as event planners.

0:12

Whether it's brand awareness, customer retention, prospecting, make sure you

0:16

know what you want to get out of the event and set your goals in advance.

0:20

Otherwise, it's going to be really hard to succeed, right? Because you don't

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know what you're trying to do.

0:24

Real talk backed up with real action. This is GTM News Desk.

0:30

I'm Nick Bennett and I'm Mark Killins. Let's see what's trending.

0:36

[Music]

0:42

Welcome to today's edition of GTM News Desk. I'm Nick Bennett and today we have

0:48

our lead story.

0:49

If you haven't been out there, Nevada released a brand new report called the B2

0:54

B Buyer First Best Practices Report.

0:57

And we're going to get into the good, the bad, the ugly, and some additional

1:01

points. But Mark, I want to toss it over to you.

1:05

What did you think about this?

1:07

Well, I first think Nevada ripped us off. I mean, people first, buyer first.

1:11

Come on, Nevada. No, but just kidding aside.

1:13

I love it. I love it. And the way they did this with Chili Piper, very smart.

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I think first off, Nick, research based content today is one of the top three

1:26

types of content I'd recommend any company invested.

1:30

So kudos to them on doing a research report. I hope they do it every year.

1:34

Secondly, Nick, I mean, the thing that I found most interesting is the

1:39

disparity. There is a huge spectrum.

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Some people, some companies are really leaning into this new way of matching

1:46

how they go to market to help people buy, and others are far from it.

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So the grades I'd give some of these companies that range from an A+ to an F.

1:56

How about you? I think one of the biggest things is visibility. Transparency and pricing as a

2:00

huge believer of the people first mindset

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and putting buyers first and people first. It's interesting that 68% of

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companies are displaying their prices openly.

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Now, I do remember when they released this port in back in 2023, it actually

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was a lot less than that.

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So I guess one thing positive in this terrible economy that we're in is more

2:20

companies are displaying their pricing.

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Now, why is that important? It's unnecessary back and forth.

2:27

I can tell you as a buyer of technology, I have been on so many websites where

2:31

it just pisses you off that you go to their pricing page

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and it has that stupid little money symbol with like one money symbol, two

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money symbols, three money symbols, contact someone,

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and you have to sit on about three calls before you even get pricing.

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So transparency, huge believer of that, glad to see that it's ticking up in the

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report.

2:53

I agree. I mean, there's pricing, there's some facts about gating content, that

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's a session or a story for another day, I should say.

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But overall, don't bait and switch buyers. That was one of my key takeaways as

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well.

3:11

The whole report honed in on different ways you could design a buying

3:14

experience that is transparent.

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It's helpful, it's easy, it's enjoyable. Ultimately, if your buying experience

3:22

is memorable, you're doing something right because your buying experience is a

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huge reflection of the brand.

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So for me, a lot of the stuff that was uncovered in this and you folks should

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definitely go check it out. We'll have it in the show notes.

3:35

Only 27% of companies are offering personalized content. And I think that's

3:40

Nick because a lot of these vendors, and look, I worked at one at one point.

3:46

That was guilty of this. Claim they could do personalization, but it's really

3:49

shitty personalization. Let's be honest with each other.

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This is a bunch of crap typically, right? And I hopefully AI unlocks it, Nick.

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And finally, with Gen AI and LLMs and all the F and acronyms that are being

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thrown around AI catches up.

4:04

But the personalized content thing, I even think Nick really 20, whatever

4:07

percent it was, I don't even buy that. What do you think?

4:10

I always wonder with these reports, how much of this has really inflated

4:14

numbers? Now, knowing Nevada and knowing that they're good people, I want to

4:18

put good faith in them that these numbers are legit.

4:21

And they did do the work, but yeah, I mean, you never know. I could slap these

4:26

numbers on any of my reports too and say, "Yeah, this is what I've come up with

4:30

It seems a little high to me. I could see a lot lower." But I think companies

4:36

dictate or not even dictate, say what personalization means to them.

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It means a lot of different things to other people. And I think it's a broad

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topic, personalized content, that if you dig in, peel the onions back of what

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it actually means, it can mean a lot of different things.

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So I think that's one of the important takeaways too.

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That's true. That's true. And I thought that's also not blame Nevada because

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ultimately at the end of the day, it's the people filling it out and they might

5:01

be stretching the truth or misunderstanding a question.

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But yeah, check out the report. Lots to unpack. We shared some of our big take

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aways, some of the things you should and should not be doing.

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But at the end of the day, the most important thing before we move on to the

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second story for today, don't treat demos as a discovery call.

5:20

That is a massively big issue in our industry. And people who are treating, get

5:25

a demo on the website and then getting someone on the phone and asking them a

5:30

crap ton of crappy questions.

5:32

What a bad experience. Don't do that. Let's go to the next story.

5:37

Absolutely. Yeah, great recap.

5:38

So the second story for today, folks, I found this link, I don't know, a couple

5:42

weeks ago, it was recently published.

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Andrew Chen, well-known blogger, well-known in the space that we're all

5:51

participating in.

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And he has talked a lot about growth hacking in the past.

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Growth hacking. I remember my days at HubSpot, we talked a lot about growth

6:00

hacking back in 2014, 15, 16, especially as we were spinning up the free CRM,

6:06

the free sales tools, the free-me emotion.

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And he just wrote this article, again, it will be in the show notes, about what

6:13

's changed and what's new with growth hacking. 10 years later, right?

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Basically, it's been around, I guess, about 10 years or so. Who knows if that's

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truly true, but sounds about right.

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And one of his big things is scarcity has replaced abundance.

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So there used to be a ton of abundance when it came to optimizing channels.

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Hey, there weren't many apps in an app marketplace.

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People were still downloading apps. People were interested in those types of

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things.

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There was white space in all these social networks, right?

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There was a lot more space to try, space to test.

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And the whole point of growth hacking is to use a scientific-based approach to

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understand your product market fit, understand a reliable, durable channel to

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generate the right types of leads or right types of customers.

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And the fact of the matter is, the shit just doesn't work.

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That's at least what he's saying. I don't know. What do you think, Nick? Before

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I give you my spicy take, growth hacking.

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Yeah, I mean, what's your thing? It's interesting. I feel like growth hacking,

7:19

it's funny.

7:20

I hear people talk about growth hacking all the time.

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And it's like, again, I think it's a topic that people just throw around

7:25

interchangeably that like, "Yo, what does growth hacking actually mean?"

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Now, I think the story was very interesting. And I do think that people aren't

7:33

interested in trying new things, but they're also not believing, or not even

7:38

believing the data,

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that there's ways to manipulate the data that makes growth hacking come across

7:43

as something that's a lot better than it actually is.

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And I think it's just like, whether you call it growth hacking, whether you

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call it whatever you want to call it, I just think there's ways to think about

7:55

what that, the way that people try new things or are interested in new things,

8:00

you have to focus on what matters to them versus trying to push hacks onto

8:05

people.

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Well, I mean, and then quite frankly, you kind of look like a growth hacker

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right now, the way you're dressed.

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So I just got to call that out. Moving on to what I think you need to do is

8:16

like my tie, it's very original.

8:18

You can see these whales on it, super original tie, $20 down the street.

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You have to use originality in how you go to market today, right?

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Because like growth hacking is like, "Yeah, you know, great headline, great

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hook, great little offer.

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I'm going to convert." Like, no, no, what Andrew's saying in the article as

8:37

well, to your point,

8:38

and what we kind of learned from the Nevada buy-or-first report is the

8:44

importance of how we match the GTM motion to how people buy today.

8:51

And he's calling out the fact that we spend a ton of time on social media

8:54

within video apps, within collaboration products.

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I mean, he has a sentence here, "It's partly why creators, short-form video and

9:03

shareable memes have become such an important growth driver for new startups

9:05

today,

9:06

even though sometimes the spikes are short." And they are short, right? Like,

9:10

it's the thing, a meme, right?

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But like, the whole point of that is our attention spans agree or disagree.

9:19

They've gone down.

9:20

They've been fragmented more and more because of so much digital crap coming at

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us.

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And to stand out, you got to be original. And, you know, just trying to

9:29

optimize a channel using numbers and dollars probably is not the most efficient

9:34

way to go anymore.

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And he's saying, it's not so much about channels to growth hacking grow. It's

9:39

about people as a way to growth hack and grow.

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And it's why I think, Nick, like the way we think about it as community-led

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growth is the tip of the spare.

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He's saying it without saying it in the article. The way you grow today is not

9:51

so much product-led growth in the beginning, which is your very traditional

9:55

kind of growth hacking mindset.

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But no, you're going to grow through a community-led growth approach.

10:01

100%. I mean, I'm a huge believer that it's like not only the importance of

10:05

originality, but the importance of empathy, the importance of, you know, just

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authenticity, I think, are also there.

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And it's like, I mean, look at people like, you know, Mr. Beast, for example,

10:16

like, I mean, his videos are super original. Like, I mean, yeah, he has a lot

10:20

of money, but like, it's just, it's so interesting to me.

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And I think that a lot of people today, again, because of like all the crap

10:26

that's thrown our ways, like, they want the edutainment a little bit.

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Now, platforms like LinkedIn aren't really pushing that anymore. They didn't

10:35

for a short time, but I think like the video side of that is still working

10:39

really well.

10:40

Memes work really well on other channels, but ultimately, it's the community.

10:44

It's the tribe that you build for yourself as like that tip of the spare.

10:48

Well, I mean, you don't need a lot of money, though, to do this. Do you?

10:52

No, you don't need a lot of money at all. I mean, honestly, as long as you can

10:56

have, you know, your own thoughts, like, people have more to say than they

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think, and people have more to say than they think. And people can actually express themselves in a lot of different ways, whether

11:03

it's through text, whether it's through memes, whether it's through video.

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And lots of times there's so many AI tools out there, just tools in general

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that like can help you get to that point of hitting publish.

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And once you hit publish, that's the tipping point. And it's kind of becomes a

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somewhat of a dopamine hit.

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Once you hit publish and once you realize what all of these extra things can do

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and how you can actually build community around it.

11:30

One word, though, that I hate that you use, Nick, I'm going to call it out.

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And call me out as much as you want. Feel free. Look, I'm wearing an F in the

11:37

whale tie that's like pink.

11:38

What? What you should not do and listen to is like this word authenticity. Oh,

11:44

my God.

11:45

Authenticity, authenticity. The freaking A word, right? Like this word is

11:49

making me sick to my stomach because number one, like what is authenticity,

11:55

right?

11:56

It's just being yourself. Be yourself. Like, look at me right now. Am I being

12:01

myself?

12:02

I don't know. You tell me in the reviews of this, but the whole point is people

12:07

throw that word around like it's God.

12:11

And I actually don't think it's about authenticity. It's about being original,

12:15

having a story, having something to say and taking a stand, right?

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Like if you don't take a stand and don't have haters, you're doing it wrong.

12:25

You need to have haters.

12:26

I'm sure there are people that hate this show or will hate this show. I mean,

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this is this is a show number one.

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That's cool with us, right, Nick? We don't care. Let the haters come.

12:34

Yeah, absolutely. But I don't know. I feel like does originality equal

12:38

authenticity?

12:40

Does it? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't think it does. Well, if you're

12:44

original, are you being authentic to yourself?

12:47

Well, what does authenticity really mean? That's like, is it authentic to

12:52

yourself, authentic for someone else, authentic?

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So let's throw the word like, hey, you're a liar, right? You could be authentic

12:59

, but you could still lie.

13:01

That's true. Or esteem authentic, right? That's a fair point. It's just, yeah,

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I like originality better than authentic, because I feel like that you can

13:13

tweak what authentic is for each social platform out there,

13:18

or how you talk to different people. But is that really who you are? I mean, I

13:22

think some people will answer that very differently, but it's important to talk

13:27

about.

13:28

And look, I brought back the tie for this whole show because I miss dressing up

13:33

. I miss wearing ties, quite frankly. That's a true story.

13:37

So you'll see a lot of different ties coming your way during the shows. But let

13:42

's move on to segment number three, Nick.

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We have a very special conversation today. They're very special person. You and

13:50

I both know her very well.

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She is a powerhouse when it comes to all things events. What a career in events

14:01

I had the honor of having her be part of my team when I was at Drift.

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Her name is Bethany Murphy, and she's up next. All right, everyone. Story

14:13

number three today.

14:15

The amazing conversation with our very special guest, Bethany Murphy from Sixth

14:20

Sense. Bethany, how are you doing today?

14:23

I'm doing well. Thanks. How are you guys? We're fired up. Right, Nick?

14:27

Fired up. Fired up. It's a big day. It's episode one.

14:32

It's a big day. It's a big day. I'll say this much. We brought you on Bethany

14:38

because event season is coming up.

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Let me ask you this question. This is off the script question. Bethany's like,

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"Oh shit. He's already asking you a question I'm not even prepared for."

14:48

What are the event seasons in B2B in your mind? When are these seasons of

14:54

events?

14:55

It's a good question because I used to think fall and spring, right? Like April

15:00

, May, June, September, October.

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And now I'm like, there's B2B events in July and August. It's all year now. So

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obviously still pretty heavy spring and fall, but man, I don't know.

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They're creeping into all months. It's painful. It's too many events in my

15:18

opinion. I don't know. I get talked about it.

15:21

You agree. You hate these too many events? Just a lot. It's a lot of events. I

15:25

preferred when it was kind of like, again, I had three months and then I had a

15:29

couple months to prepare for the next season.

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I thought it was just constant. That's how it was for me. It was always spring

15:36

and fall. It was like, "All right, cool. You could take the winter and you

15:40

could take the summer, cool down a little bit, rethink things."

15:44

But yeah, this way too many events out there. Everyone just wants to make money

15:47

to be honest with you.

15:49

Well, that's not a bad thing, Nick. It's not a bad thing, but it's like, "How

15:55

many events is too many?"

15:58

"How many events are you going to this year?" I mean, I don't go into as many

16:04

anymore because I got three rascals consuming my life, which is great, you know

16:09

, every day is an event.

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But let's get to the questions. So Bethany, I think we're going into a big

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event season. September, I mean, September, you got like Dreamforce, Saster, In

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bound, Mekon, blah, blah, blah, like 2,000 events in B2B, which is way too many

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as we all know.

16:27

How do you make an event not suck today?

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Not sure I've ever been asked that specific question before. But you know what?

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What I do think is after COVID, attendees need compelling reasons to go to

16:41

events, right? More than ever before.

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And for me, like, events not sucking, like, it really has to do with the attend

16:47

ee journey and the attendee experience and making sure that attendees are

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leaving, feeling energized, feeling part of the brand, right? And that's hard

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to do.

16:57

It just can't be like, I mean, again, there's so many events, right? And as an

17:01

events person, I get invited to attend a ton of events.

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For me, it's like, if I just get invited to a dinner, like, I'm probably not

17:07

going to go, right? Like, there has to be something more.

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And I think us as event professionals, like, really need to think about that

17:15

experience and make it impactful. Otherwise, people aren't going to come.

17:19

I love that before Nick asks you the next question. I want to double-click on

17:22

the dinners thing, because I hate the dinners, too. I'm sick of the dinners.

17:26

The dinners are driving me effing insane. Like, we had a segment just earlier

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before you came on about being original.

17:34

Guess what? A dinner is not original, because you fucking do it every day. You

17:39

eat dinner every day. Seriously, can we come up with nothing better about the

17:42

thing? Like...

17:44

I agree. I agree.

17:46

Nick, what do you think? Before you ask the next question, dinners?

17:49

You love them? I know you like to break bread, so like, I don't know. What do

17:52

you think? You like the dinners?

17:54

No, the issue with dinners are you're stuck next to, like, one person or you're

17:58

stuck, like, across from someone, but you can't really talk to anyone else.

18:02

And it's like, but I think the reason people do dinners is because that's the

18:05

way it's always been done, which goes back to the originality piece that we

18:08

talked about earlier.

18:10

It's like, oh, well, you know, if it works, why fix it? If it's not broken, why

18:14

fix it? Like, oh, dinners work. Like, cool. We're just going to do 20 dinners.

18:18

I mean, I know lots of companies that still do dinners, and they say it's one

18:21

of their highest converting channels, but it's because they don't expand their

18:26

mind to the experiences that people want today.

18:30

Because why try something new? I mean, let's be honest, everyone is so burnt

18:34

out and tech these days because everyone's afraid they're going to lose their

18:37

job tomorrow that it's like, oh, I'm not going to try anything crazy.

18:41

Like, why risk, you know, burning myself out or getting fired for trying

18:44

something that doesn't work? I'm just going to do what works.

18:47

I'm going to do the status quo, and I think that's one of the biggest things

18:50

that we're fighting against today, too.

18:52

That is not how you win championships. If you have any, so like everyone who

18:57

has that mindset, change your mindset. We can move on.

19:01

Yeah, so let's go into the second question. So what is the most egregious

19:04

mistake event marketers make today?

19:07

I really think that it comes down to event marketers not determining goals and

19:12

KPIs at the onset of planning, right? Like, this is essential, especially in

19:18

this economy.

19:19

We need to be able to prove the ROI of our events. And if we don't know what we

19:23

're trying to achieve, this is really hard, right?

19:26

And, you know, I say this all the time, like, every event is different, and

19:29

your goals for each event and each type of event should also be different.

19:33

Whether it's brand awareness, customer retention, prospecting, make sure you

19:37

know what you want to get out of the event and set your goals in advance.

19:42

Otherwise, it's going to be really hard to succeed, right? Because you don't

19:44

know what you're trying to do.

19:46

It goes back to the larger conversation of like, I feel like oftentimes, and I

19:51

don't know about the, I don't know if this has ever happened to you, but it's

19:53

happened to me and it's happened more.

19:55

I'm going to throw a shot out to the enterprise sales reps that are out there.

19:58

But field marketers, event marketers has been treated as event planners.

20:03

And I'm going to speak for me personally. Like, I've been treated as an event

20:07

planner in the past because a sales rep says, oh, you're not in market.

20:12

I've been planning, go plan me this happy hour, go plan me this. But like, the

20:15

issue is there's so many silos in a lot of these companies and it's like sales

20:21

not talking to marketing, not talking to customer success, not talking to

20:25

product. And I'm a huge believer of that there should be cross-functional KPIs and maybe

20:31

to the point of even like revenue facing marketers should be compensated

20:36

similar to salespeople.

20:39

I tried to champion this years ago and people thought I was crazy that like,

20:42

like, we're, yes, so you're saying that field marketer or event marketer should

20:47

be given accelerators should be given kickers just like a salesperson because

20:52

you hosted an event.

20:54

And what one, you have the wrong mindset if that's the case because events are

20:57

a huge driver of channel and a lot of companies and it's like, you have to, you

21:01

need to have your seat at the table because you're doing just as much as a lot

21:05

of these salespeople in driving source and influence pipeline.

21:10

So, thousand percent.

21:12

So, a thought and a question to follow onto this, Bethany.

21:15

The thought is, I'm going to throw a new term out for everyone. Everyone loves

21:19

a new acronym for marketing. Let's just keep throwing new acronyms out. Nick

21:22

and I are guilty of this. Let's just keep doing it.

21:24

IE.

21:27

A.

21:29

IE.

21:31

Any guesses what that could mean, Bethany?

21:36

Yeah.

21:38

Tell me.

21:39

Ideal. Go ahead, Nick. No, I don't know. I was trying to think. I did think

21:48

ideal is the first one, but then I kind of ideal, ideal event attendee.

21:50

Cloves. Ideal event audience.

21:54

Ideal event audience.

21:56

I was going to say audience.

21:58

You win, you win. So, the goals and defining the ideal event audience. So, now

22:03

to the question, how specific should the KPIs be, Bethany?

22:08

I think it's really adamant that again, every event is different and you're not

22:12

trying to accomplish the same thing with each type of event.

22:14

Right. And so, for our user conference is a good example. Right. It's 95%

22:19

customers. So, we know exactly who we want there. Right.

22:22

For other events, it's more difficult. Right. We sponsor a third party event.

22:25

We don't know exactly who's going to be there.

22:27

We think it's our ICP, but we're not 100% sure. We can use six cents, which we

22:31

do to try to target the right people.

22:33

But what I would say is like, I think it's super important. Again, like, I don

22:38

't care if I get a thousand people there if they're all the wrong people.

22:43

Right. I'd rather have three people that are the right people. And so, I think

22:46

that's really important. It's like not the butts in the seats.

22:49

It's like the right butts in those seats.

22:52

A.K.A. ideal event audience. So, you're welcome everyone for that acronym.

22:57

Let's move on to question number three.

22:59

People are going to be mad at you for coming up with another acronym because

23:01

there's already enough of them.

23:03

They're going to be like, why is Mark creating another acronym that people are

23:06

going to be confused by?

23:08

I don't care. Send me mail. P.O. Box 913 to report Massachusetts 01950. I don't

23:13

care.

23:14

Send the hate mail. Next question. What is the most common misconception that

23:20

our lovely executives have about events?

23:25

I'm an executive. I got a tie on. So, bring me the heat, Bethany. What do I get

23:29

wrong?

23:30

Why am I stupid when it comes to events?

23:32

Look, I mean, again, events are a huge line item in the overall marketing

23:36

budgets, right?

23:37

And that's a fact that's not a misconception. But what I think what could be a

23:40

misconception from a lot of executives is the lack of value that you can get

23:45

from an event, right?

23:46

And so, going back to what Nick said about, you know, we're not event planners,

23:50

we're event marketers.

23:51

It's on us to prove the ROI and the business value that comes from events.

23:56

And that's sometimes lost on the executive team, right? So, my team and I spend

24:00

a lot of time post-event pulling together all the metrics,

24:04

making a nice little deck that kind of ties in a bow, all of our KPIs, status

24:08

against those KPIs, attendee feedback, data from onsite activities, right?

24:13

The more data, the better. Again, it's on us to prove that the spend is

24:18

worthwhile.

24:20

And it's not for every event, right? I mean, it's not.

24:23

I like it. I like it. We got one more question that Nick's going to tee up.

24:26

And then for everyone who's listening, head to the TAC Network, TACNEP.com, for

24:32

the exclusive part of this conversation with Bethany,

24:34

where we get very, very tactable, she's going to give you her exact playbook on

24:39

how she does 60 cents events a year.

24:42

It's like 600, right, Bethany, at this point. Totally, totally.

24:46

All right, Nick, to give the last question, let's get the show on the road.

24:49

Absolutely. All right. So, you know, we're huge believers of a people-first

24:52

mindset.

24:53

So what does a people-first event strategy look like?

24:56

This is kind of similar to what I talked about before, but it's prioritizing

25:00

the attendee experience, right?

25:03

Like, it has to be something that people want. From the content, from the

25:07

experience, it's all about the attendees, and you have to make it that way,

25:10

right?

25:11

So we're very focused, and my team and I spend a lot of time figuring out what

25:15

the journey of the attendees are.

25:18

From the second they step into the event through to the last session, right?

25:22

We want them to know they're at a six-sense event. We want them to feel the

25:26

love from our six-sense employees, right?

25:29

And we do this in a variety of ways. I mean, I think it's creating amazing

25:32

experiences, right?

25:34

But it's having those touch points. Every account that attends Breakthrough has

25:38

to have a meeting with their six-sense team on-site, right?

25:41

That helps with relationship building, helps us understand challenges of

25:45

accounts, and really, like, from an RRI perspective, gets us, like, in the

25:49

forefront of having conversations about upsell, right?

25:52

Which is also amazing. But it's all about that experience and making that, you

25:57

know, stand out and making people want to come back here over here, because,

26:00

like, Mark started, you know, talking about at the beginning, there's so many

26:03

events to choose from.

26:05

And just doing, like, an okay event these days, like, it's not going to get

26:09

people there. And it's certainly not going to get people to come back year

26:10

after year.

26:11

Mm. Treating events like a product. We'll dive into that in the exclusive

26:15

content that's coming up next for TAC Network subscribers.

26:18

I think that's a good point, Bethany. Treating it like a product, right? That's

26:21

good.

26:22

I also think you said stuff around, like, internal marketing. Like, how do you

26:26

market the event both to executives?

26:29

And that's a lot of the data side and telling that story with data, but then

26:32

marketing it to the rest of the company to make sure they know what's going on.

26:34

And I got to give Kudos a sixth sense. I mean, sixth sense, you guys, it's

26:37

really Kudos to you. So thank you. Great job.

26:41

You guys have some of the best events ever, and you get so much love about your

26:45

events. You just did an event in London, I believe.

26:48

And I saw LinkedIn blowing up about how great it was. So just huge Kudos to you

26:52

. Nick, you could learn some stuff from Bethany. I know you run our events.

26:55

I mean, Nick, I mean, you know, she could mentor you.

26:58

I'm always looking for mentorship, honestly. I feel like I feel like, you know,

27:01

I've been out of the true, like, event game for a little bit.

27:05

Not long, maybe a little year or so. But yeah, I mean, it's, I agree. I've been

27:10

to lots of sixth sense events personally.

27:13

Breakthrough is one of my favorite. And it, you know, who knows? I'm going to

27:17

try to maybe get there this year. So we'll see.

27:19

Yes, Vegas. We could do this live at Breakthrough. We could do this. We're

27:23

going to have a podcast booth there.

27:25

Come sponsor it. Love to have you. We'll give you $1 Bethany. $1.

27:30

Shameless plot. Sorry. I sell sponsors. You know, I got to make some money.

27:35

Fine, fair, fair enough. It is about the money. Remember, we said that the

27:39

beginning. All right, everyone. That concludes this show.

27:43

See you on the next one.

27:47

Thanks for joining us on this episode of GTM Newsdesk presented by the TAC

27:52

Network.

27:53

To hear our full conversation with our guests today, head to the link in the

27:58

show notes to subscribe to the TAC Network.

28:00

Until next time, I'm Mark Killens and I'm Nick Bennett. Keep it people-ferrest,

28:04

everybody.

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